A Land Far Away

Pick Pocketing
I've used the 3.5 edition definition as detailed below as the starting point for our discussion. A fair amount of rework may be necessary as some things in PnP don't translate well to NWN. Admin and H/DM opinions welcome.

For a short explanation of the feature specification format, visit:
http://www.alandfaraway.org/phpbbforum/ ... hp?t=27229

Functional Requirements
A DC 10 Sleight of Hand check lets a character palm a coin-sized, unattended object. When the character uses this skill under close observation, their skill check is opposed by the observer’s Spot check. Any PC observers within perception range will be notified of the attempt if successful. Any NPC observers within perception range will react according to their AI if successful.

If a character tries to take something from another creature, they must make a DC 20 Sleight of Hand check to obtain it. The opponent makes a Spot check to detect the attempt, opposed by the same Sleight of Hand check result achieved when trying to grab the item. An opponent who succeeds on this check notices the attempt, regardless of whether the item was taken. If the opponent's Spot check equals or exceeds the Sleight of Hand check, a successful pick pocket attempt will be resisted.

Characters with the sleight of hand skill may aid another in an attempt to steal from a creature (distract the target) by performing the same skill check against DC 10. A character trying to aid another in a sleight of hand attempt must be standing within 5 feet of the target, in their line of sight, and visible to them. A successful aid will grant a +2 bonus to the steal attempt but only one character may assist at a time. Creatures which are already distracted (in conversation, bartering, or in combat) will automatically grant a +2 bonus to any sleight of hand check against them.

Sleight of Hand DC......Task
10................................Palm a coin-sized object, make a coin disappear
20................................Lift a small object from a person

Action: Any Sleight of Hand check normally is a standard action. However, you may perform a Sleight of Hand check as a free action by taking a –20 penalty on the check.

Try Again: Yes, but after an initial failure, a second Sleight of Hand attempt against the same target (or while you are being watched by the same observer who noticed your previous attempt) increases the DC for the task by 10. All subsequent attempts within a 5 minute period will incur a +2 circumstance modifier to the DC.

Special: If you have the Deft Hands feat, you get a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks.

Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Bluff, you get a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks.

Untrained: An untrained Sleight of Hand check is simply a Dexterity check. Without actual training, you can’t succeed on any Sleight of Hand check with a DC higher than 10, except for hiding an object on your body.

All pick pocket attempts on PCs will be logged.

NWN Object Dependencies
None

Local Variables and External Configs
sItemOwner (original owner only)

Logging and Debugging (global LOG & DEBUG (on/off) constants)
Item Name, Item Tag, Source PC (PC Name, GSID, Public CD Key), Target PC, Server ID, Datestamp

Persistence Requirements
None

Event Dependencies
OnDisturbed

One aspect of the rules I find lacking, particularly for a real time gaming environment, is that there's no possibility of preventing an attempt you notice. I'd like to see a rule added to accommodate prevention (aside from hunting down the rogue and slaying him). Specifically, if the spot check of the target equals or exceeds the sleight of hand (pick pocket) check, the attempt is observed and the item is NOT acquired. This fits the spirit of "opposed" checks common in 3rd edition rules.

I'd also like to see a cumulative penalty - take all 50 of my small items, it starts to be a large item.

So do you want to simplify the try again rules to always increase the DC with each subsequent attempt (not just after a failed attempt)? +10 seems rather steep though so perhaps a separate +2 circumstance modifier to the DC for every attempt (ie the more you take off their person or the longer you stand nearby or the more you keep bumping into the individual, the more likely they are to notice your presence).

not sure I'd limit it, just include a decay on the penalty. If we set the no-stack script so you *can't* get more than +5 ability, +5 skill and +2 circumstance (synergy) we should be good with that.

The way I see, if you have +2 per attempt and that decays a -1 per minute, you will pay if you are in such a hurry you can't pick your opportunities. This should also be a spot by *everyone* in sight, and we should have guards scripted to respond to PC and NPCs in Lawful towns.

Fionn wrote:The way I see, if you have +2 per attempt and that decays a -1 per minute, you will pay if you are in such a hurry you can't pick your opportunities.

Precisely. It essentially penalizes a PC for spamming the Pick Pocket skill, and if I were DMing such a situation in a PnP session, I'd be applying these circumstance modifiers to my rolls. I think the decay may need to be longer to have a real effect...perhaps 10 minutes. Would that be too long?

Fionn wrote:This should also be a spot by *everyone* in sight, and we should have guards scripted to respond to PC and NPCs in Lawful towns.

I agree and I've got this penciled in under AI improvements, which need to be role specific.

10 seems high (20 min to 'get into position' again). 2-5 perhaps?

Ok. Dropped it down to 5. Any more opinions?

I would love to see it possible to distract the target ie in conversation or otherwise non-combat in order for another person to pickpocket.

Two thieves can team up...

Baalster

I love the concept, as long as we have controls for repeats set right. Pretty simple to roll PP for every member of your party within X feet, then add +2 for every one after the one that initiated.

Good idea. I think we'd either need a way to distinguish what in-game actions constitute distractions and/or have some way to 'aid another' according to the PHB for combining skill attempts. The former has its limits I think but the latter seems quite feasible.

In a nut shell, for every character aiding the player (DC 10 skill check), the character performing the task gets a +2 to their roll. We would probably want to limit this to one or two others assisting as the target can only get distracted so much.