Able Learner

[hollyfant]

Actually, it's multi-classing that makes full levels of a skill available. Able Learner just makes it affordable.

Any Fighter can get ranks in Diplomacy, but at double costs and capped at half his levels (plus one). Adding a level of, say, Swashbuckler will remove the cap, but not the costs. Able Learner halves the costs, but doesn't remove the cap.

Of course, a Fighter can also use his regular feats to boost skills.


You know, we should set up a forum column: Ask the PowerGamer.

[Ithildur]

Back in the day the most successful and rich and powerful PCs were NOT guys who fought tons of monsters; it was guys (and gals) who used their RP uberness with skilled and shrewd PCs. Most everyone applauds those kinds of PCs in alfa, not the PC's that try to get rich etc via tons of combat.

I'm almost wondering if I'm playing a different module than you John; trying to get rich by doing lots of fighting on tsm (or alfa in general) would take an eternity, is extremely deadly, and a poor game plan (unless your planned staple income is actually from finding bodies while doing said fighting). I'm sorry that for whatever reasons your bard didn't make a lot of money, but making the claim that one must make an uber combat build to be successful/rich in alfa based only on your experience is an unfortunate conclusion.

Also, if it's not clear, I've no desire to take skill points away from characters, yours or anyone else; if anything, I'm saying the opposite.

[johnlewismcleod]

I suspect we actually agree completely, Ith. But since I play skill based PC's exclusively (that's what is fun for me), I know from experience that in ALFA NWN2 they have very limited opportunity for income and advanement. I'm happy with that, because I play for RP anyway.

It just rubs me wrong when I see skills being parsed as some sort of PGer bluff and the threat (implied or real) that skills will be haked and reduced to prevent PGing.

Skill use doesn't generate wealth or XP in ALFA (although admittedly effort has been made on BG server to alleviate that dispairity), they are useful only for RP and party support.

Income and XP are only available via chopping up monsters, and skills don't help a PC do that. While it can be argued that some rogue skills can help a PC in combat (i.e. Dodge, Evasion, backstab), these only help in party combat. Just try using them solo and see where it gets you .

My point has been throughout that if there is a percieved need to prevent PGing, crippling skill use will do nothing to alleviate that, and in fact will only increase it IMHO.

It must be a failing of my choice of words that continues to cause people to think I want my PC's to get rich and be uber IG.

I don't: I like RP.

I like partied RP.

If getting wealthy was a priority for me I would roll up a fighter/cleric or something and concentrate on chopping up monsters. Though, in truth, I really have no idea what class/race is best for generating wealth and advancement IG.

What I do know, is that it isn't skill based PC's.

[Ithildur]

I really don't know what to say at this point; it almost sounds like we're playing on different PWs (and reading different threads on top of it!); either that or DMs and players are severely underutilizing skillchecks these days.

Anyway, this is getting off track.

Would it be a good move to change the game to make Able Learner (which an experienced player/PGing guru claims is quite powerful) available only for humans like in pnp, when humans do not have the drawbacks they'd have in pnp?

[HEEGZ]

Well, from the way I understand the discussion, it seems to be pretty well balanced as is. Thanks for the discussion, it was helpful. Along with Rotku, I also was never aware of how this feat functions and may have to consider trying it out at some point.

[DMyles]

Any good power gamer is going to be a human anyway when using able learner for the extra skill points which you need and the extra feat for luck of heros or spell casting prodigy which are both great. I guess the thing the game designers did wrong was remove the cap for skills when multi. Someone pursuing a fighter/cleric/mage path and continuing to max rouge or bard skills is the issue here. I don't care what we decide but it should either be ok or not.

[HEEGZ]

I think our approach is that it is okay to build your PC as you wish. Naturally we should be avoiding min-maxing and other powergaming builds that do not reflect the IC personality of the PC. Anyone who wishes to powergame is welcome to do so elsewhere of course.

[Rotku]

I think our approach is that it is okay to build your PC as you wish. Naturally we should be avoiding min-maxing and other powergaming builds that do not reflect the IC personality of the PC. Anyone who wishes to powergame is welcome to do so elsewhere of course.

2.6.1 Powergaming Character Concepts
Creating a character that just happens to be extremely optimised to make XP or wealth does not excuse powergaming. You may be forced to retire your PC and create a new one if your character concept is too powergaming oriented.

Example: (1) Creating a "Min-maxed" character; that is a character with maxed combat abilities and minimised non-combat abilities, such taking a level of Ranger to get dual wield without any legitimate IC reason for the character to have a level of Ranger.

[HEEGZ]

rule-dropper

[Rotku]

Hey that's what I'm here for. To educate the masses in the ways of Alfa