ACR Loot system

[Veilan]

fundamentally unfair.

It's never fair. PCs are always advantaged, by merit of choosing flexibly what to do, how or whether at all to engage, when to flee, or to bring backup. An NPC fighter 5 with a greatsword +1 is nowhere near as dangerous as a PC fighter 5 with a greatsword +1; "overequipping" mobs, while not overall an advisable practice, is really just a way to narrow the gap. Of course you don't want to see +3 flaming longswords used for that effect, but there's nothing wrong with equipping mobs with body armours and shields even if they don't each drop 300gp or so.

[paazin]

Well, we can tweak the algorithm to periodically forgo all gear and generate a "big loot" item. That'll help keep things from becoming too predictable or uninteresting.

But going back to what Mayhem said, if the loot value (V) of a creature is less or significantly less than the value of the gear it's carrying (G), the loot drop formula seems fundamentally unfair. PCs in this scenario are obviously fighting a creature that can carry gear of greater value than players could ever recover, meaning that the risk/reward ratio is too skewed.

If this is indeed happening, I think there's a good case to adjust V upward (increase the multiplier, maybe even based on % deviation from typical gear value). Conversely, builders could equip creatures appropriately up front based on the relationship between creature CR and gear value. For simplicity, I think it's generally around 20 * CR, currently. This would be consistent with builders setting the CR properly of creatures they equip, but it's also least likely to get done or done right [every time].

Hear, hear. Cipher's suggestion is a good one.

[Mayhem]

fundamentally unfair.

It's never fair. PCs are always advantaged, by merit of choosing flexibly what to do, how or whether at all to engage, when to flee, or to bring backup. An NPC fighter 5 with a greatsword +1 is nowhere near as dangerous as a PC fighter 5 with a greatsword +1; "overequipping" mobs, while not overall an advisable practice, is really just a way to narrow the gap. Of course you don't want to see +3 flaming longswords used for that effect, but there's nothing wrong with equipping mobs with body armours and shields even if they don't each drop 300gp or so.

I strongly disagree. If the mobs in an area are not tough enough, make tougher mobs, don't re-equip the ones that exist with phantom gear. That makes a whole nonsense of the CR system.

Monsters should be equipped with gear appropraite to their CR, as changing their gear is a "stealth" upgrade to the power, increasing the risk of fighting them without effecting the reward.

If two sets of bugbears are of equal level and stats, but one set are equipped with leather and spears whilst the others are equipped with breastplates, large shields and bastard-swords, it is clearly not right for them to give CR and so equal xp, let alone equal treasure!

Its anti-immersive, as much as anything. I can see a case for armour being rendered useless by battle damage, (even though a player can get hit exactly as often without suffering any armour damage) but in most cases if you are getting wailed on with a greatsword it simply makes no sense for that greatsword to evapourate into thin air as soon as you kill its owner.

And as I have said elsewhere, if you are going to pull the "oh, it was too rusty/damaged/low quality to be worth taking" line, then the weapon, as equipped by the monster, ought to reflect that. A weapon that is so cruddy as to be not worth taking should not miraculously be in perfect working order when a monster is holding it.