Extreme Environments

Ronan · Post by **Ronan** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:10 pm

Rusty wrote:Re. Hunger/Thirst - As I said, I'd like to see these ALFA-wide. If, for whatever lame-ass reason, that's not going to fly, then do we want them to feature in specific climates or do we dump them altogether? I.e. you don't ever run out of water, even in the deepest desert.

While these should be in, they shouldn't be required in the vast majority of places. Its just a PITA to place down markers or waypoints for water, when as Fionn says, we don't care how much water a PC is carying in a forest.

To do hunger right, we'd need to standardize all food items, and get builders to distribute them, then script a system for them. We don't even know if we'll be able to replace NWN2's standard content with basemod content yet...

I don't know, if someone wants to make a HTF system (and a GOOD system, not something thats going to get in the way or be annoying) I wouldn't say no to it, but we'd have to see a proposal and have people to code it.

Can you list all the sorts of "protection values" we need? And which are could be based off of the PC's armor's type?

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:36 am

OK, I'll pull together the data we'd need for an extreme environment system without HTF, although I'm not sure Fatigue need be bundled in with Hunger and Thirst.

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:32 pm

Speaking of fatigue, if we intend to introduce multiple sources of this in-game, we're going to need a global method of tracking it. It's simple enough to provide an API for each system to use (GetIsFatigued(), SetIsFatigued()), but it's something to keep in mind. ATM, fatigue does factor in when attempting to rest in armor so we'd need to "graduate" the code (boolean status flags/bitmasks) if we plan to implement it anywhere else. Perhaps it should graduate regardless given its global use....

Ronan · Post by **Ronan** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:02 pm

ç i p h é r wrote:Perhaps we can explore adding item properties to the 2das to support extreme environments rather than using local variables. It would simplify the creation and application of such items.

Thats what I had in mind, but honestly I didn't know anything about these books Rusty is talking about. I had planned just to add IPs to represent things like the warmth of clothes, etc, for standard 3.5 weather effects.

Anyways this is why I'd get started on weapons first.

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:08 pm

Yeah, probably a good starting point. I can't think of anything we'd need to put on weapons at this point. Special materials are supposedly handled by OE (has anyone looked into this BTW?) and weapon breakage wouldn't require any configs that I can think of, assuming we were building a system to manage it.

p.s. Add non-detection to the list of item properties along with other spells that can be applied to items which would support role play.

Ronan · Post by **Ronan** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:46 pm

Good point on nondetection, I've added that to my (absurdly long) list of needed 2da changes.

ç i p h é r wrote:Special materials are supposedly handled by OE (has anyone looked into this BTW?) and weapon breakage wouldn't require any configs that I can think of, assuming we were building a system to manage it.

Special materials are set on an item, and have no direct effect other than bypassing DR. So their properties need to be added on as item properties to the item to represent other abilities of the material. Oddly OE seems to have thought that adamantine adds +magical damage, meh.

Castano · Post by **Castano** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:52 pm

I am not opposed to HTF...but like Fionn said it should be builder chosen for each area.....otherwise builders are gonna have to flag every stream....and those of us with stream intensive servers are gonna be busy. bottom line: what works for one server (e.g. a desert server with few water sources) can easily become a PITA for everyone else.

coach · Post by **coach** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:29 am

I would stick with only extreme environments as far as worrying about implementing HTF or hot or cold for that matter

why get technical about HTF when hitting the rest button takes 5 seconds to simulate a DnD full night's sleep (HP recovery, spell recovery, etc)

dealing with HTF takes place "off screen" IMO just like sleep

now, if your PC curls up in a corner in the inn and waits eight ingame hours when they rest, then you have an argument for HTF

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:01 am

Presumably you can still tag areas No Rest, thus preventing the PC group who've run out onto the side of the glacier in midwinter, dressed in chainmail thongs, and without a tent, from recovering that fatigue; of course, you would need to add a tent item that allowed you to rest in such environments.

coach · Post by **coach** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:46 am

yeah i understand that, i am just saying if you don't have to simulate entire sleep time in ingame hours, why should we have to simulate eating and drinking in a normal environment?

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:22 am

Because it's odd if you only have to eat and drink in the desert?

Fionn · Post by **Fionn** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:36 pm

Rusty wrote:Because it's odd if you only have to eat and drink in the desert?

No, it's rather normal the the DM only checks when you're in the Desert. Most areas that have plentiful game and water present little challenge to adventurers. We don't make them roll init every time they see a squirrel either. We simply assume the PCs were able to overcome the CR0 challenge and move on.

I'm hard core in favor of standards in scripts and items. This does not mean that I'm going to force players in Waterdeep to memorize where all the wells are in order to avoid dying of thirst. It also does not mean I'm going to force the builders of Waterdeep to put in usable wells in every area of the city.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:25 am

Well, like I said, I'm pulling together data to give us the basis for an Extreme Environment system without HTF. Should be done Thursday/Friday, depending on work.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:49 pm

There's a system already on the NWN2 Vault, although I don't think it does exactly what we want. I have a .doc proposing a system for us, which I shall add to the DMftp...

moss · Post by **moss** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:16 pm

Perhaps for simplicity's sake, extreme environments could require periodic fortitude checks. Players who fail suffer consequences pertaining to the environment. Parties with rangers may be partiallty or completely immune. I like rangers, and we should encourage parties to include them (certainly makes sense in hostile environments).

It doesn't make sense for a party to wander across a desert or a mountain range with characters unfamiliar to that terrain and not encounter adversity (monsters aside). At the same time, simply having fortitude checks keeps it simple so there doesn't have to be various waypoints, complicated scripting, etc. Simply have a script in the area HB that fires to roll the checks & act accordingly. Real easy.

Would that work?