A Land Far Away

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:17 am**

Alright, I'm going to say before anyone reads onward that this is a thread that is not expressing happiness, fluffy gentle feelings or throw soft cuddly bunnies around. This is a bunch of proposals for the DMs and admins of ALFA as a whole. Most of these proposals stem from... frustration.

1) Add more low level creatures that can't be solo'd but managed by two or three people so groups have something to do together and can gradually get more experience. At least more experience from sitting around talking all day gathering scripted increments or when alone, checking in on the game every now and then and typing something to get before mentioned increments. Not nessecarily for levels all around, but as a somewhat long time ALFA player and DnD veteran, nobody likes level 1. Help level 1s and 2s get off the ground a bit so they won't die if a stiff breeze hits them.

2) If not adding more low level creatures, add more low level statics for groups to do. For the same reason as the first proposal, to help get level 1s and 2s on their feet and in to the game to have some fun. Nobody likes level 1 and level 2 isn't much better.

3) Remove the whole... "Stacking statics" rule crap. I'm sorry, but that's what that rule is. Pure. Crap. The game is an RPG. What other games are RPGS? Fable, WoW, Mass Effect, so on and so forth. Each game has a similar aspect: You do quests for experience and money to advance. I can respect the desire to keep leveling slow and not have everyone running around with pocket fulls of money, but that's what adventurers do. They go around, ask if someone needs something done. When they find someone, they do it and come back. If they need to rest due to injuries or lack of strength (ie: spell casters running out of spells) then they stop. I think the resting once a day thing is plenty deterrent from questing your brains out. But this is how adventurers get stronger and get better stuff, they do tasks for others who pay money and give experience.

4) Now reading the last proposal you're probably thinking "But that's what DMs are for". Well chuck, I got news for you. There aren't enough DMs. MS seems to get plenty of DM action because it's a new server. Well that's fine and dandy, not everyone is going to transfer to MS and even if they did, it would become overcrowded and there would be waiting lines. TSM has barely any DM attention and it has a respectable player base. It has one active DM and they're only on once or twice a week. I'm sure BG is no better. Don't just wait for applications for DMs, search for them as DMs. You see someone that's doing a damn good job of playing their character and they do it enough, send them a message and ask if they'd like to DM, give them a shot at it on a different server and see how they do. There are too few DMs for a server system that is as slow going as this bunch.

5) Final proposal: Merge all the servers together. Yes, I know all the servers are different based on their timezones. But really, wouldn't it be easier to maintain one single server with one single system and have all of the player base in one location? I don't know the logistics of everything, but having three people on one server, two people on another and one on the last server is just ridiculous. Not to mention there would be more DM coverage of the one server which solves all four previous proposals in one swept stroke.

These are just my thoughts on the matter, take them as you will. It'll most likely be under advisement, but whatever at least I tried.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:45 am**

#1-3 I don't really like, because they're just superficial solutions to the problem you describe in #4. #5 seems like a radical solution, and it's unrealistic at the moment (though it will eventually happen as the player base declines).

#4, on the other hand, is a great point.

The first step is admitting that you have a problem. ALFA as a community isn't there yet. We need to collectively realize that we are at a crisis point in terms of active DMs. I know of 3. Every single ALFA player deserves to be in a weekly scheduled session. All of them. As a community, that should be our goal.

What you suggest could be helpful. Enlisting more DMs is one approach. Honestly, I think just as much could be accomplished if the Admins went to each DM and just asked them to please, for the sake of ALFA, run at least one weekly scheduled session. If 3 of them said yes, that would be twice as many as we have now. That would be huge.

Bottom line, we need to do something.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:46 am**

mogonk wrote:#1-3 I don't really like, because they're just superficial solutions to the problem you describe in #4. #5 seems like a radical solution, and it's unrealistic at the moment (though it will eventually happen as the player base declines).

#4, on the other hand, is a great point.

The first step is admitting that you have a problem. ALFA as a community isn't there yet. We need to collectively realize that we are at a crisis point in terms of active DMs. I know of 3. Every single ALFA player deserves to be in a weekly scheduled session. All of them. As a community, that should be our goal.

What you suggest could be helpful. Enlisting more DMs is one approach. Honestly, I think just as much could be accomplished if the Admins went to each DM and just asked them to please, for the sake of ALFA, run at least one weekly scheduled session. If 3 of them said yes, that would be twice as many as we have now. That would be huge.

Bottom line, we need to do something.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:48 am**

Dark_Wych wrote:1) Add more low level creatures that can't be solo'd but managed by two or three people so groups have something to do together and can gradually get more experience. At least more experience from sitting around talking all day gathering scripted increments or when alone, checking in on the game every now and then and typing something to get before mentioned increments. Not nessecarily for levels all around, but as a somewhat long time ALFA player and DnD veteran, nobody likes level 1. Help level 1s and 2s get off the ground a bit so they won't die if a stiff breeze hits them.

Difficult. With the way our NPCs are named (ie they dont have names) how would you know it was something that needed 2 or 3 people? The answer is, you would find out after you die. In case you are wondering, we don't have names on the majority of our mobs to try and make the combat you do have unpredictable. Is that archer just a regular grunt, or is he a much more dangerous threat than the ones running into melee?

2) If not adding more low level creatures, add more low level statics for groups to do. For the same reason as the first proposal, to help get level 1s and 2s on their feet and in to the game to have some fun. Nobody likes level 1 and level 2 isn't much better.

This simply comes down to time. Believe it or not, creating and testing a static does actually take a decent amount of time, and if you don't have the full NWNx4 and MySQL setup on your machine, you can't even properly test them. If you want to put your hand up to offer to help, I am sure one of the servers would be interested in hearing from you. I am trying to add some new ones to TSM, but as one of the only active DMs there atm, that usually takes my NWN2 time.

3) Remove the whole... "Stacking statics" rule crap. I'm sorry, but that's what that rule is. Pure. Crap. The game is an RPG. What other games are RPGS? Fable, WoW, Mass Effect, so on and so forth. Each game has a similar aspect: You do quests for experience and money to advance. I can respect the desire to keep leveling slow and not have everyone running around with pocket fulls of money, but that's what adventurers do. They go around, ask if someone needs something done. When they find someone, they do it and come back. If they need to rest due to injuries or lack of strength (ie: spell casters running out of spells) then they stop. I think the resting once a day thing is plenty deterrent from questing your brains out. But this is how adventurers get stronger and get better stuff, they do tasks for others who pay money and give experience.

No. Won't happen. Not at all. This may be an RPG, but it is not a game like Fable, WoW or Mass Effect. Is this game, the statics are meant to give a group of people something to do when a DM is not around. You are also meant to keep in character. The Knights in Silver are not going to offer you two patrols to two separate places at the same time. Would your character really take on five jobs at once? I highly doubt it, and even if he did, the people that gave you those statics are likely to be pissed that you didn't come straight back when you finished their job and instead walked off somewhere else.

No. Static Stacking is likely to stay against the rules for awhile.

4) Now reading the last proposal you're probably thinking "But that's what DMs are for". Well chuck, I got news for you. There aren't enough DMs. MS seems to get plenty of DM action because it's a new server. Well that's fine and dandy, not everyone is going to transfer to MS and even if they did, it would become overcrowded and there would be waiting lines. TSM has barely any DM attention and it has a respectable player base. It has one active DM and they're only on once or twice a week. I'm sure BG is no better. Don't just wait for applications for DMs, search for them as DMs. You see someone that's doing a damn good job of playing their character and they do it enough, send them a message and ask if they'd like to DM, give them a shot at it on a different server and see how they do. There are too few DMs for a server system that is as slow going as this bunch.

There is a link to apply to DM on the left side of the website. Players, you will find, like to play their PCs. Players are also usually most comfortable taking up the DM wand on the server they have spent most of their time playing on. This provides a problem: To DM where they want, they can no longer play their character where they want. Most players fall onto the side of keeping their character where they want.

This is not a dig at you per se, but we see alot of people complain about the lack of DM coverage, but very few of those that complain actually put their money where their mouth is and step up. Set an example and maybe others will follow.

5) Final proposal: Merge all the servers together. Yes, I know all the servers are different based on their timezones. But really, wouldn't it be easier to maintain one single server with one single system and have all of the player base in one location? I don't know the logistics of everything, but having three people on one server, two people on another and one on the last server is just ridiculous. Not to mention there would be more DM coverage of the one server which solves all four previous proposals in one swept stroke.

The way NWN2 is made makes this 100% completely impossible. All three of our servers are pushing against the maximum size a NWN2 mod can be before it simply stops working (32bit architecture limitations). Merging would basically require us to absolutely gut every server. It would be awesome, but it simply cannot happen due to technical limitations.

Also, it is naive to think it would actually increase the DM coverage. For instance, having played there for quite some time, I know a fair bit about The Silver Marches and am fairly comfortable DMing there. All I know about Baldurs Gate is what I learned from the CRPG of the same name and I would not be quite as comfortable DMing there. I know nothing about the Moonshaes and I would feel uncomfortable trying to DM there.

What you suggest could be helpful. Enlisting more DMs is one approach. Honestly, I think just as much could be accomplished if the Admins went to each DM and just asked them to please, for the sake of ALFA, run at least one weekly scheduled session. If 3 of them said yes, that would be twice as many as we have now. That would be huge

It would be, but this is a hobby for all of us. You cannot force people to do something if they do not feel like doing it. I try to DM on consistent days, but sometimes I just get home from work and do not feel like it. I would rather my DMing be a little more ad hoc than to disappoint players waiting for me on a scheduled day because I just pulled a 12 hour shift at work and am too tired to do anything with them.

Some DMs already do this. viigas, Mirabi and Jayde come to mind. Some DMs simply do not like that particular method of DMing. Some of us aren't so good at overarching campaigns and prefer smaller ad hoc stuff.

You cannot force a DM to DM, doing so simply burns them out even quicker.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:45 am**

*holds out hands looking up with a smile for a soft cuddly bunny to arrive*

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:16 pm**

Well chuck, I got news for you. There aren't enough DMs.

Nobody is keeping you from signing up to DM i bet.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:38 pm**

1) Add more low level creatures that can't be solo'd but managed by two or three people so groups have something to do together and can gradually get more experience. At least more experience from sitting around talking all day gathering scripted increments or when alone, checking in on the game every now and then and typing something to get before mentioned increments. Not nessecarily for levels all around, but as a somewhat long time ALFA player and DnD veteran, nobody likes level 1. Help level 1s and 2s get off the ground a bit so they won't die if a stiff breeze hits them.

No.

2) If not adding more low level creatures, add more low level statics for groups to do. For the same reason as the first proposal, to help get level 1s and 2s on their feet and in to the game to have some fun. Nobody likes level 1 and level 2 isn't much better.

No.

3) Remove the whole... "Stacking statics" rule crap. I'm sorry, but that's what that rule is. Pure. Crap. The game is an RPG. What other games are RPGS? Fable, WoW, Mass Effect, so on and so forth. Each game has a similar aspect: You do quests for experience and money to advance. I can respect the desire to keep leveling slow and not have everyone running around with pocket fulls of money, but that's what adventurers do. They go around, ask if someone needs something done. When they find someone, they do it and come back. If they need to rest due to injuries or lack of strength (ie: spell casters running out of spells) then they stop. I think the resting once a day thing is plenty deterrent from questing your brains out. But this is how adventurers get stronger and get better stuff, they do tasks for others who pay money and give experience.

No.

4) Now reading the last proposal you're probably thinking "But that's what DMs are for". Well chuck, I got news for you. There aren't enough DMs. MS seems to get plenty of DM action because it's a new server. Well that's fine and dandy, not everyone is going to transfer to MS and even if they did, it would become overcrowded and there would be waiting lines. TSM has barely any DM attention and it has a respectable player base. It has one active DM and they're only on once or twice a week. I'm sure BG is no better. Don't just wait for applications for DMs, search for them as DMs. You see someone that's doing a damn good job of playing their character and they do it enough, send them a message and ask if they'd like to DM, give them a shot at it on a different server and see how they do. There are too few DMs for a server system that is as slow going as this bunch.

No.

5) Final proposal: Merge all the servers together. Yes, I know all the servers are different based on their timezones. But really, wouldn't it be easier to maintain one single server with one single system and have all of the player base in one location? I don't know the logistics of everything, but having three people on one server, two people on another and one on the last server is just ridiculous. Not to mention there would be more DM coverage of the one server which solves all four previous proposals in one swept stroke.

No.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:09 pm**

Mord wrote:
blah blah blah blah

(sorry, simply easier than quoting all of the above again)

Don't you think perhaps your post was somewhat pointless? The rest of the posters made valid points and suggestions... (though I agree that a simple answer of 'no' is fair to some of the initial suggestions, others were valid and are to some extent even being addressed already, meaning 'no' isn't at all valid for those)

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:14 pm**

Would this be a good place to bring up the level 2 starting level again? Since the majority of the vote in the last poll was in favor of it?

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:18 pm**

Ksiel wrote:Would this be a good place to bring up the level 2 starting level again? Since the majority of the vote in the last poll was in favor of it?

No.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:23 pm**

At the risk of stating the obvious, even with never playing any of them I'm sure the other "RPG"s mentioned do the running statics loop much more better than we do. You run around asking for quests to do, gaining gold, equipment and experience so you can go to other people asking for more difficult quests to do. The "RP" being in possibly choosing which people you run to, and which options you choose from a conversation tree of dialogue. This isn't what we're about, at least to me. The whole point of RP is interacting with the world freely, and that can only be done with a DM. As mentioned, other games do the "standard MMO CRPG" style a lot better, even other NWN2 worlds do, and it's pointless to even try to compete.

Sure, lvl1 and 2 might be more of a risk for being fragile, but guess what, lvl3 (or 5 or 7) isn't likely going to be any more fulfilling unless you have some actual DM led plots. In fact, higher levels will probably end up even more boring, as you don't have any real threat for your PCs existence to overcome anymore. The trip is worth more than the destination.

Personally I would go as far as saying that a PC who gainst numerous levels and loot by devoting copious time to running statics instead of personal interaction with his/her world actually cheapens the game for those who play a "true" RP. That interaction could and should of course be with other PCs and NPCs under DMs alike. Advancement is not supposed to be about how many hours you can grind. And yes, I know it's fully not at the fault of the players themselves, and I'm sure they would love DM attention greatly, but that doesn't change the overall effect. Futhermore, the possibility of static farming unfortunately leads to the inevitably of it, as we've seen over and again.

Thus, the apt analogue remains an electronic version of the PnP table. If you can't make it to the table at the DMs house when he wants to have his/her session, too bad for you. The only thing you can do to make sure there's a session going when you want to is to DM it yourself. Scheduling sessions, so that people know when to come, is great added value for the players and their scheduling. If the DM wants to commit to that.

Statics can, however, be a good addition to the game, to add content to make people reasons to interact. Also it's a problem for DMs to make a quest where lvls1-8 are present. As a result, either high or low level group gets catered to. On TSM at least there seems to be an expectation that low-levels will run the static gantlet enough to gain a couple levels to make themselves relevant to join the "big boys".

After all this blah blah, here's a suggestion that might help low-levels struggling to run the static gantlet:

Make a list of (almost) all the (low-level) static quests available, and rough estimate of CR (level of a party of 4 this would make a reasonable but almost surely overcomable challenge).

Why do I suggest such a blatant metagame act? Because "exploring to find the statics" is almost surely even more a blatant break of character. Those who have played Ultima surely know running the "name" "job" routine on every NPC. What a person would do IC is to go to a relevant place, say tavern, and chat to people to find who might be in need of what kind of help, and what would suit him/her. If there's a DM for that, great. Most surely there's not, however. Sometimes another PC could help, great. But a post of such in-world common knowledge for new players would help, so they can make-believe they heard about the static in a tavern rumor and go for it.

Let's face it, every old hand player knows that stuff already. And new players are constantly reminded how dangerous it is to explore and try things out. And how unpredictable and dangerous combat is and should be. And it should, under a DM event. For static content, old hand players know the rough CR of every quest and related monsters, whereas new PCs and players are maximally cowed to stay put and bored, or start over with a new PC.

So, there's a simple act to hopefully decrease new player attrition, make them stay long enough to get hooked on DM events.

*releases a flood of soft cuddly bunnies*

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:43 pm**

I know it's not the same thing you're asking for, in any of the five above, but here's what I do, as a player to help your situation.

I play this Ranger, and for a good long time almost all I've done is escort lowbie around and help them on static quests here or there. I think this is a totally IC thing to do, ranging around helping disparate folks, it gets me out and about, it helps others get out of the level 1 blues, and gives us all something to talk about other than our feelings

We do have a lack of DMs at the moment, but so far as I've seen, these things go in waves, I have recently volunteered to DM on BG so I can learn the client, and may go on to DMing elsewhere later. Big threads about needing DMs does very little as far as I can tell. My best hope for more DMs is actually the multiple servers you dislike. If people on moonshaes get enough DM love and know they'll not often want to travel, likely some of them will eventually volunteer to DM TSM. Likewise, I am hoping to DM on BG, because I play almost exclusively on TSM and I still hold out hope I'll someday go check out moonshaes.

Curmudgeon actually does a pretty good job harassing folk to become DMs, good people, strong RPers, the simple fact is that most people don't want to. I said no for months and months because frankly I come here to play and have fun. Of late the idea of adding a little content and helping players have fun, also seems fun, so i volunteered.

I don't really have a point beyond that many of these things are natural and will solve themselves in time, and that there is one metric f*ck-ton of lowbie spawns and content on TSM, I'd be more than happy to try to arrange times for us to play together if you're having a hard go. It's not the same as DM time, but at least I can make exploring the extensive statics on TSM a little more enjoyable RP wise and survivability wise.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:40 pm**

I think we're suffering from a very terrible case of MCS or "Miscommunication Syndrome" on the topic of suggestion 3. This is likely stemming from people having varying definitions of "Static stacking". So, I'll share what I got beef from a DM. I was told that doing quests one after another (As in doing the quest for one NPC, coming back, turning it in and taking the next) was static stacking and was frowned upon and the person helping me would get a boot in the backside for helping me do such. That being said, am I incorrect that this is a rule?

To mogonk & zicada: I have applied for DM because I want to give players something to do. Maybe not a campaign but for the love of pete, something! Sitting around discussing the weather... well... it gets old pretty quick let me tell you xD But I applied for DM and I was denied because I haven't been around long enough. Granted, I am working to remedy this so I can DM to help fix this issue. Belieeeeeeeve me I'm all over it.

Mord: A bit counter productive don't you think dude? I think a " Go %&$@ yourself and your proposals" might have saved a bit of time, don't you think? xD

Audark: Your help is definitely appreciated, don't get me wrong. It's nice to see PCs and players taking charge of a boring situation and trying to make it fun. For that, I commend you. I make a point of sending a tell to someone who's online and telling them where I am or asking where I can find them. Or if there's numerous people, sending people a tell letting them know where everyone is. If they are in one location safely accessible that is.

Galadorn: *Swipes fluffy bunny and cuddles it in front of you*

Swift: Why not name the monsters then? Would solve a lot of issues right there, wouldn't it?

I'd love to help test quests until they worked for other players. I'm not sure how I'd go about doing this, but yeah I'd love to help. Anything to help the servers progress as a whole.

I put my money where my mouth was and I was denied due to the fact that the DMs and admins of ALFA didn't really know what kind of person I was and how I RPed. IE: I don't have the seniority to DM just yet. Again, working on it.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:15 pm**

My understanding of 'static stacking' is when one quest giver offers something like 'scouting, raids, and exploration'

'stacking' is when you take Scouting 1, Raid 1 and Explore 1, and do them all in one circuit of the area, come back, turn them all in and take another three from the same questgiver and repeat, thus netting significant gold and xp in as short a time possible.

As far as I have seen it defined previously, going out on one quest, coming back to return it, then immediately going out on one more, one at a time, is absolutely fine. Some players and DMs don't like this, still believing it to be using the statics too much, but so far as I know, it is not 'actionable' abuse of the system, that is how it is designed to be used.

I'll seek clarification for you, and all of us.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:22 pm**

Ok so checking back over other threads:

http://www.alandfaraway.org/forums/view ... ng#p513252

Here Curm defines stacking as I did, taking more than one at any given time,

however he also goes on to call one after the other 'static running' that is also actionable apparently.

I've not experienced too much friction on the latter, especially when grouped up and RPing during the static quests. I think the main idea is they don't want to see a solo PC blasting through a ton of statics super fast, I guess as with most things, balance is key. Don't know what else to say on that

A Land Far Away

Have I got a Proposal for ALFA

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