DM RP XP

Ideas and suggestions for game mechanics and rules.
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ElCadaver
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DM RP XP

Post by ElCadaver »

Buoyed by me recent success in changing the status quo, I have another idea.

One of the things I found when I was DMing is that there would be in the back of my mind that I could be using my time to advance my PC instead of DMing. I'm sure all DM's have experienced this if they love their PC's.

What if DM's could acrue RP XP just as players did, and then credit it to their PC (not their DM toon obviously).

Meta Blah Blah....

The point is, it might lure a few more people into DMing, as they would be getting some small reward. I'ts not like they are going to level quickly. And if they are DMing enough DMing to lvl their PC... good on them!!! Then, when they decide to play, they can still play with their 'PC's friends' at a smiliar level, instead of being behind in advancement because they chose to spend some time DMing.
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FoamBats4All
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by FoamBats4All »

Do we also give builders RP XP when they're toolsetting? :P

I like the idea of DMs being rewarded for their efforts, and would love anything that encourages people to DM more. But I'm not sure if IC rewards are the way to go. Though it would be nice to clock in DM time in a counter, like we do RP XP. Maybe it can be turned into something else if it is ever figured out.
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by t-ice »

Seen this idea floated around before, and there's a degree of merit to it. But I'm not so sure it'll be too fun for a PC to suddenly gain xp for having done absolutely nothing. Then again, doing absolutely nothing (or doing whatever your IC story for your PC is for off-screen downtime), is not in anyway worse than hauling mail bags back and forth for that wizard level.

Also I'm not sure we'll get good DMs by semi-forcing them to service with the help of this incentive.

Perhaps something more limited, like gaining "banked rpxp" by DMing, and while there's rpxp in this bank you get double the rpxp rate when playing? Then your PC won't advance doing absolutely nothing, but there's a small candy for DMs who might think "I could be playing too, which would be more fun...".
FoamBats4All wrote:But I'm not sure if IC rewards are the way to go.
Definitely not IC "tangible" rewards (such as wealth and items). But xp is abstract, so it won't that much disturb IC by appearing from thin air.
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by Veilan »

I used to oppose the idea, then was made a convert once I considered it from an angle of opportunity cost. If my choice is as a DM to enrich the world at least a little bit by being present and doing minor background DMing for no gain, or shuffling my feet in a room for RP XP, then we're demonstrating that the former is less appreciated. Worst case, someone is logged in as a DM doing nothing - no loss over whether he's logged in as a player doing nothing, and hopefully subject to the same policing.

In any case, TA has been unwilling to discuss the proposal (presumably because there is no way to reward scripting as well and thus an injustice between live DMing and scripting/toolsetting/etc.), and DMA/PA did not seem to have the will to do this with anything short of unanimity.

I do not expect this to happen, and there are quite some considerations that make this controversial - we may have the easier ethical stance without it, I suppose, so I am not going to try to twist arms.

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Re: DM RP XP

Post by t-ice »

XP Royalties on all content :idea: :!:

So for every xp a PC gains, be it from live DMing or static quests / spawns, the creator of the content will gain a fraction (say 1%). This will also create a market incentive to create content that is popular!

no, I'm not serious...
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ElCadaver
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by ElCadaver »

t-ice wrote:XP Royalties on all content :idea: :!:

So for every xp a PC gains, be it from live DMing or static quests / spawns, the creator of the content will gain a fraction (say 1%). This will also create a market incentive to create content that is popular!

no, I'm not serious...

Yay. I have so many live areas, I would have a lvl20 PC kicking around if that were the case.

*heads off to finish the current one*
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kid
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by kid »

It is a problematic suggestion... was for it, against, for, now im against again.
I think.

RP XP as in toon is too much probably.
But finding a way to give some symbolic reward for contributers would be nice.

Howerver... no good idea what.

If we had some weekly/monthly XP cap... it would be less open to abuse (or just silliness without abuse) I think.
But thats another idea that's probably not going to happen.
So... Dunno, im drawing blanks here.

So... Eh... thanks everyone for the hard work! yay?
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Heero
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by Heero »

People should want to help out so as to not be an ungrateful deadbeat, not because itll get them more, cooler stuff.
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ElCadaver
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by ElCadaver »

kid wrote:It is a problematic suggestion... was for it, against, for, now im against again.
I think.

RP XP as in toon is too much probably.
But finding a way to give some symbolic reward for contributers would be nice.

Howerver... no good idea what.

If we had some weekly/monthly XP cap... it would be less open to abuse (or just silliness without abuse) I think.
But thats another idea that's probably not going to happen.
So... Dunno, im drawing blanks here.

So... Eh... thanks everyone for the hard work! yay?
On the other hand.. those who have been granted DM status have proved themselves at least willing of that level of trust, so should be much less likely to abuse the system.
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by Zelknolf »

Veilan wrote:In any case, TA has been unwilling to discuss the proposal (presumably because there is no way to reward scripting as well and thus an injustice between live DMing and scripting/toolsetting/etc.), and DMA/PA did not seem to have the will to do this with anything short of unanimity.
I actually did post my rationale in the thread-- as I was of the opinion that every contribution could feasibly be evaluated and rewarded with small enough overhead to make it gain the desired effect of incentivising contribution a little more-- it was specifically that I converted away from the idea upon reading Acadius' arguments: that it's true we could use this to incentivise things, but it also means advancing while actually being at zero risk and having zero character development, which would presumably be a negative impact on the system of advancement (which was supposed to be that we wanted to reward people for playing their characters and playing them well): whereas even those who "farm" the RPXP scripts (I assert that doing this is impossible; the RPXP scripts are by design agnostic to quality, and I've confirmed with the DMA that this is the desired system of reward) would presumably eventually get some interaction from DMs (with whatever risk associated: probably marginal, but advancement rate is marginal too), and would be participating in the development and portrayal of their characters.

I'd say that if you want to reward DMs or staff or tech or builders or whatever, just DM them. We're here to play; we all want to have a good time and participate in this collaborative story thing we've got going on. Or at least I hope so. People are here for all of the wrong reasons otherwise.
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by jmecha »

Zelknolf wrote:
I'd say that if you want to reward DMs or staff or tech or builders or whatever, just DM them. We're here to play; we all want to have a good time and participate in this collaborative story thing we've got going on. Or at least I hope so. People are here for all of the wrong reasons otherwise.
+1
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Ithildur
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by Ithildur »

Zelknolf wrote: We're here to play; we all want to have a good time and participate in this collaborative story thing we've got going on. Or at least I hope so. People are here for all of the wrong reasons otherwise.
+1 and amen. A good reminder for us all.

DMs and builders do deserve recognition and kudos, but ooc xp gain seems to go against some core values of ALFA storytelling.

Personally I've always felt the best DMs are the guys that have a certain level of commitment and dedication to the craft (it's how they become good DMs; few are born with innate uber DMing skillz I think). Such people carry on even without extra rewards or incentives. They enjoy the ways they can advance/contribute to the ongoing story in ways they could not as a player only.

Having said that, I agree there's room for recognizing and rewarding them, and we ought to (especially with the pain of toiling with the NWN2 DM client and toolset). Just not in this particular way, oocly dropping xp on their PCs. A 'bonus' DMed session or two where their toon (and friends maybe) gets an IC OPPORTUNITY to do xyz that's a little extra special and may even have a nice, appropriate IC reward tailored for the PC might work better. Not something silly either, like 'you kill the kobold and find a +5 vorpal sword!', something that makes sense, and has a chance of failure like all good ALFA stories.

We have 'DM Kudos' threads already for each server, and HDMs do give shout outs to builders here and there. Perhaps an 'ALFA DM of the Week/Month' recognition thread might be fun, or a general kudos thread for any outstanding player, dm, builder/tech folks, even HDM, admins, etc for the entire project could be a good idea. There are good things going on and people doing good work, and that needs to be highlighted regularly.

Whatever 'reward/incentive' system we come up with, it should be consistent with the values implied in Zelk's statement, rather than introducing elements that undercut those values.
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by oldgrayrogue »

I played on another server where the player with the voted best "story" in an IC "Library" thread each month got 250 bonus XP for their toon. We as Admin felt it promoted story based RP and creativity. I would be absolutely fine with the head of each department selecting a "volunteer of the month" for some bonus XP whether it be for DMing, building, scripting what have you. Those efforts probably do more than stories to move the project forward. Fact is we award RPXP to players for just being logged on and the time our voulunteers spend NOT logged on contributing to the project results in XP "lost" for their toons. I don't see XP earned this way any more OOC than RPXP awarded for just having your toon logged on doing fedex statics etc.
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by CloudDancing »

I consider library stories and sent in logs reasons to award XP modeling after dms before me who gave me XP for such things here before I was a DM.

As per rewards it would be (in my opinion) the role of the HDM who presumably is aware of all their dms activities, to reward them accordingly.

This would also include the LA taking a role and seeing that the Alfa admin and their teams get equitable rewards too.

What do player volunteers want?

*Dm time and scaled challenges
(and fairness in dm time being given. Its not fair that someone that built the entire infrastructure of tech for Alfa gets 0 dm time.)
*persistent chests
*generic player housing assigned to them
OR
*a marked change to the server provided by their character and presented in a timely manner (like Tam Why's shrine in Lowhill or the shrine built in Gullykin by jmecha's long passed character)
*positive public strokes in the forums that detail the span and effect of their contributions.
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Re: DM RP XP

Post by Ithildur »

Cloud_Dancing wrote:
What do player volunteers want?

*Dm time and scaled challenges
(and fairness in dm time being given. Its not fair that someone that built the entire infrastructure of tech for Alfa gets 0 dm time.)
*persistent chests
*generic player housing assigned to them
OR
*a marked change to the server provided by their character and presented in a timely manner (like Tam Why's shrine in Lowhill or the shrine built in Gullykin by jmecha's long passed character)
*positive public strokes in the forums that detail the span and effect of their contributions.
(Mostly) agreed. The above things that are related to telling the story/character development done in an IC fashion are far more desirable I would think for most ALFAns than someone simply ooc dropping xp/gold/whatever on their toon.

[edit] Clarification, I am not in favor of wholesale plunking down new shiny houses, pstorages, temples, PrC's, whatnot for DMs and others if it bypasses normal IC processes/costs etc. Keep it IC as per normal, just rather than 'I know you fulfilled every requirement/cost ICly, now you'll have to wait 2 years RL before you get to enjoy the fruits', more of 'Hey, you did everything required IC; we'll make this a priority.' seems reasonable.
Last edited by Ithildur on Wed May 23, 2012 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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