Party member HP visible

Ideas and suggestions for game mechanics and rules.
t-ice
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Re: Party member HP visible

Post by t-ice »

Considering a case where the "good healer" Zelk mentioned is facing off in melee against an enemy who is "near death" when she sees a companion fall ... Do do you factor the neg hit point number into the decision of whether to rush straight to heal, or get a couple attacks in first, hopefully to fell that enemy? I say to not metagame there is about there with the level of impossible Rorax so colorfully used as comparison. There's a reason a DM doesn't tell the players "you just failed a spot check on figuring the tunnel you walk down leads to an ambush". No matter how good RPers the DM knows the players to be.

But that said
Zelknolf wrote: That question of work v. benefit is what makes the decision to take on the development or not a tricky question, and one that leans toward letting it be for now.
is fair enough. I certainly trust your judgement on the work involved, and also can easily believe UI modifications can be tricky, though was hoping for the contrary. There are other matters for tech to address, for sure. (Like the bleeding system in general, which might make far better use of effort) Cheers for considering this.
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Keryn
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Re: Party member HP visible

Post by Keryn »

Let me just ask something...

What game are we playing here? :?

So looking at a red bar that is half filled its ok. Knowing he is about half HPs is ok? Though it seems that in your perspective knowing to choose between a moderate cure potion or a critical cure potion, doesn't play a part from your perspective. Well its just a difference between a 300GP potion of a 1500+ one, which is a big deal, in a game where economy plays a big factor, and players need to tactically use the available resources they have.

Now how is it that folks interpret HPs? Some tend to RP - "Ey, you seem to be wounded do you want some help?" other do it differently, but it seems to me there is this sort of common sense that HPs reflect the health condition of a PC.

Being -1HP can simply be a passed out PC but clearly breathing, while a -6 HP may just just stopped breathing, his chest doesn't move and he is in the limbo.

The game provides this option for a reason, and this sort of "Ghost" this thing about metagaming smells like a dead cat already. You are complaining some players took a tactical approach to an encounter for looking at their buddy and knowing he was not that close to death that he could wait a bit while they killed the critters before risking their own life to save him? Seems like a perfectly acceptable choice, in a game that is all about tactical deployment when it comes to combat, actually one that happens quite often, because running blindly to heal someone might just get 2 toons killed instead of one. Meta is using information that your PC could not know since it is not provided IG, but HPs have a direct connection with how the PC looks more healthy or almost dead, so its not even meta, that information is there, its just provided through numbers because the game works based in numbers. When I hit a critter i see I did 20 dmg, not that I hit a great shot...

I seriously fail to understand the big fuss around this. As was stated before knowing the HPs is just common in any pnp/dnd game.
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Zelknolf
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Re: Party member HP visible

Post by Zelknolf »

I don't think anyone suggests taking away the option to see how much trouble someone is in, Keryn. The suggestion is that the precise details would not be available, in character, and that the reduced visibility of those details would make for better role playing here.

In any case, re-writing the party list GUI would be pretty significant-- and really, if we do that, there are so many cooler things that we could do to it for the same effort (and with greater developer interest, and thus quicker turnaround, more and better testing, and a higher-quality end product), which seems to make this point pretty moot.


And yes, bleeding system is getting work this release. Correctly handling the circumstances which produce tech rezzes, like this one or this one, will get priority, and will likely require some fussing and tweaking as they get tested. Bleeding and death has a lot of moving parts, which are likely to complicate little changes (but the gain-- fewer tech rezzes, less paperwork, and thus more time playing-- is pretty significant).
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Keryn
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Re: Party member HP visible

Post by Keryn »

Well Zelk that is your department. I don't pretend to know how much time scripts take to nail. Even if we all are at times lead to believe we do, I certainly do it from time to time :oops:

Anyway its good to see the bleeding system reworked. Keep up the good work Tech team.
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Ithildur
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Re: Party member HP visible

Post by Ithildur »

I can't remember whether being in party displayed HP in ALFA1 or not to other party members. I seem to recall it did?

I personally would prefer to see such info (which I'd classify in the realm of 'very likely to contribute to undesirable metagaming' - especially for cvc) removed, but I totally understand the allocation of resources/effort vs priority; plus if we were able to deal with this in alfa1 which had much more CvC than alfa2, then maybe this becomes a lower priority still.
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ElCadaver
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Re: Party member HP visible

Post by ElCadaver »

Ithildur wrote:I can't remember whether being in party displayed HP in ALFA1 or not to other party members. I seem to recall it did?

I personally would prefer to see such info (which I'd classify in the realm of 'very likely to contribute to undesirable metagaming' - especially for cvc) removed, but I totally understand the allocation of resources/effort vs priority; plus if we were able to deal with this in alfa1 which had much more CvC than alfa2, then maybe this becomes a lower priority still.
Removing party HP ( you mean the red bar, or the numbers? would be a bad idea. In combat, people just don't have time to emote 'I'm mortally wounded, please heal me', or "I'm poisoned". I think the info displays the state a reasonable person (PC) could surmise by looking at the current state of another PC. Healers gonna heal.
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Ithildur
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Re: Party member HP visible

Post by Ithildur »

ElCadaver wrote:
Removing party HP ( you mean the red bar, or the numbers? would be a bad idea. In combat, people just don't have time to emote 'I'm mortally wounded, please heal me', or "I'm poisoned". I think the info displays the state a reasonable person (PC) could surmise by looking at the current state of another PC. Healers gonna heal.
I think it's pretty clear if you read the thread we're talking about numbers, not the red bar.
Formerly: Aglaril Shaelara, Faerun's unlikeliest Bladesinger
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It’s not the critic who counts...The credit belongs to the man who actually is in the arena, who strives violently, who errs and comes up short again and again...who if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement, but who if he fails, fails while daring greatly.-T. Roosevelt
johnlewismcleod
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Re: Party member HP visible

Post by johnlewismcleod »

I really don't understand what everyone's got against the colour red...it goes well with green.

No wait..that makes brown :chin:

What were we talking about, anyway?
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kid
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Re: Party member HP visible

Post by kid »

Meh. well... if we go PnP... you would know how much xp a party member has.
on the other hand i am in favor of things to make people die.
so... if someone feels like doing all the work...
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Zelknolf
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Re: Party member HP visible

Post by Zelknolf »

I think the real question in this thread has been answered, and this thread is destined to tumble into unproductive things now. Send a PM if the locking is terribly unjust.
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