Healing Kits

[Brokenbone]

#alfa-players consensus seemed to be that 10 charge healing kit deals seem to do nothing for poison or disease. I do not know whether this is the case or not.

If it is, it's a backslide from NWN1 ALFA, backslide from NWN2 vanilla, and out of whack even from a PnP perspective.

Can anyone say what "healing skill items" do currently do, and brainstorm if they ought "do more"?

Old NWN1 node mentions Medical Bag stuff here: http://www.alandfaraway.org/node/965

NWN2 Wikia pretty clear about the DC15 poison/disease removal checks (though it does nothing for damage incurred thus far).

SRD is pretty clear that the frozen DC15 check NWN2 implemented "ain't quite right", it's more a case of substituting the heal roll for the next save.

Comments?

[Zelknolf]

Much more doable with poison than disease.

With poison, success can just remove the effect (The "next save" would be the secondary, and final, one, so removing the poison effect would have the same net effect as making that save)

With disease, we need the infrastructure of long-term care and a more sophisiticated system of tracking disease. But a day is only a few hours and disease isn't terribly common in ALFA, so I'm not sure how valuable it is to build that out.

[AcadiusLost]

Yes, right now the 10-charge healing kits just apply the +2 circumstance bonus to stabilization checks (DC15 heal, used on a bleeding PC to stabilize).

Other functionality was initially intended (poison/disease/longterm care), but never implemented. Possible we could add back some of it in future updates now that we've actually got a tech department active...

[hollyfant]

a day is only a few hours and disease isn't terribly common in ALFA, so I'm not sure how valuable it is to build that out.

Diseases kill, and Clerics really don't need to be even more essential.

How 'bout making a "Remove Disease" effect use up multiple charges to compensate? Or impose a temporary penalty?

[Brokenbone]

If we had custom heal kit scripts in NWN1, are they not portable to NWN2? I see all the old ALFA Haks are at a minimum still on Jaydemoon's site, just realized though that without an NWN1 install, I can't peek into hak files, hah. Probably were in one of the top level haks as custom spell stuff.

I'm not sure why one would have a kit be used as a "Remove Disease" spell, unless meaning that you'd still need a DC (something close to the disease save) check vs. Heal, and then burning charges. Like, skill needs to be tied to charges, not talking like a spell storage device.

[Zelknolf]

Diseases kill

In NWN2?

I would like an example of any ALFA PC killed by the ability damage from a disease. You can count NWN1, too, if you'd like.

[Brokenbone]

I am having an awfully tough time bumbling around scripts that I used to (I think) know better. I am not sure how "vanilla" healing kits work in NWN2, it seems almost like it's a pre-defined function and therefore something I'm not clear how you hak around it at all, nor am I clear how ALFA did it with its own unique replacement items.

I used to be better at reading these things.

Anyhow, is there any "easy" way to look at whatever "substitute roll based on skillcheck for the secondary saves" thing that we did in NWN1 to consider applying to NWN2? Again, we did it in NWN1, it's how peons without Remove Disease / Neutralize Poison do it in PnP, it's essentially "can we do this again, like vanilla kits minus the actual heal-boost?"

Was waiting to see if I'd log in dead this morning after a silly little rat bite, carrying an expensive Lesser Restoration scroll since no temple merchant could offer better. Recall Ronan's tale of Ghoul Fever of last week, logout with a diseased PC, log in next morning with a 2 ability score, since "all that offline rest seemed to include sitting in one spot and failing saves", when ICly, someone would probably be wandering around seeking help whether from PCs, mundane healers or temples.

Heal ranks have got to be worth more than just "stabilizing unconscious guys", the main reason to get any at all is to treat poison / disease.

[t-ice]

How about letting the kit use to roll a heal check versus save DC of disease. On succesful check, cast remove disease?

By SRD, a heal check is made, and next save is higher of the save roll, or the heal check. The kit could just give an additional roll on it on the spot, and be close enough? Might remove the +2 circumstance bonus for mw kit to compensate for quicker applying of effect, and only allow this for the mw kit?

[Brokenbone]

In NWN1, whether "unmodified" or "ALFA", the roll was a kind of "on the spot" thing, which I am not quite sure if it had a set DC to remove ANY disease, or if it somehow paid attention to the DC of whichever disease was in place at the moment. Removal at that moment would happen if successful, because, hey, why wait an hour to see if your successful healing roll was better or worse than an undetermined fort save.

So practically this meant "roll high and remove the status effect instantly." Also if you failed, it meant try try again. Could mean a 10 charge kit wasted 3 or 4 charges with fail, fail, fail, PASS!

Again, this is core to SRD healing skill, why blow ranks if all it's good for is DM events or "helping a downed buddy"? Poison/disease removal especially in a world of offline resting and consequences piling up may be a need, reward skill point investment, etc.

[DMyles]

heal is good for picking magpie mushrooms!

[Galadorn]

10 months with a Healer's Kit, never used a charge.

I don't think they have any "mechanical" use whatsoever in game.

I only bought it cause it made sense for RP, and in case a DM was on... having one would possibly be useful RP-wise though DM intervention with RP-rolls etc.

DO they actually have an in-game use?

[t-ice]

DO they actually have an in-game use?

Yes, right now the 10-charge healing kits just apply the +2 circumstance bonus to stabilization checks (DC15 heal, used on a bleeding PC to stabilize).

But I know, this whole "posting before reading" thing is all the rage these days. Just didn't know it extended all the way to single-page threads.

[Galadorn]

Well, i read the thread fully.

I tried using the item on dying PCs, unhurt PCs, hurt PCs, poisoned PCs, diseased PCs, and some PCs with numerous of the above at the same time. Thinking they should help out with poison and disease, maybe give another save or something if quickly applied between secondary saves or something.

Also tried the kits on my own PC in various stages of the above injury or sickness. Never "noticed" anything happening.... if it is only +2 on stabilizing, i guess that's cool.

so. Thread read or not, I still don't think they do enough! 49 gold refund please! rarrr