Uncanny Dodge Fix

Ideas and suggestions for game mechanics and rules.
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hollyfant
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by hollyfant »

One point of Natural Armor to replace Uncanny Dodge.
Not that this makes sense, it just sounds like a fair replacement to me.
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by SwordSaintMusashi »

hollyfant wrote:One point of Natural Armor to replace Uncanny Dodge.
Not that this makes sense, it just sounds like a fair replacement to me.
Would have to make it dodge. Natural Armor doesn't stack with natural armor from items. Only dodge bonus does.
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hollyfant
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by hollyfant »

SwordSaintMusashi wrote:Would have to make it dodge. Natural Armor doesn't stack with natural armor from items. Only dodge bonus does.
But a dodge bonus is lost precisely when Uncanny Dodge would have kicked in. Yes, a character with UD would have no use for a +1 natural armor amulet. And would get less (relative) benefit from a Barkskin spell. So be it - they have nothing now.

I could support a proposal to make it a dodge bonus, but prefer a natural one myself.
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by SwordSaintMusashi »

Didn't think about that.

Not sure then. Nat armor doesn't seem enough to me.
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by hollyfant »

Deflection then? I don't think that's ever lost. Works against touch attacks, works while flat-footedness.
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by SwordSaintMusashi »

A more common bonus to achieve, but yeah, it's working against more than just straight attacks seems better to me.
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dergon darkhelm
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by dergon darkhelm »

As the player of a rogue I would welcome either a fix or reasonable accomodation in replacement. :)
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by Veilan »

What about the armour skin feat that Dorn suggested. It does stack with everything if I am not mistaken, and people cannot have taken it... because it is an epic feat, right?

The only problem then is people with uncanny dodge wearing full plates or other armour where their dex allowance would already have been cut off, or situations where they have already taken a dex hit. We could require a dexterity minimum to make sure it is not something your dex 12 full plate barbarian profits from, but by and large it might be worth some consideration - I guess we will not get a perfect solution no matter what we do.

It is still a poor solution leaving uncanny dodgers worse off when flat-footed, yet better off in a straight duel. But I completely agree that they need to get something, as uncanny dodge is a rather vital class feature. Please keep the ideas coming!
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by Dorn »

make sure it is not something your dex 12 full plate barbarian profits from
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;)

Dext min would be fine.
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hollyfant
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by hollyfant »

If it's technically feasible to replace a class-granted feat with an epic feat, Armor Skin might be the way to go.
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by Blindhamsterman »

it's easy, it's just a 2da edit.

would take minutes tops.

(by this I mean, I could do it right now and send it over to AL if people wished it)
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by AcadiusLost »

The 2da edit would mean PCs leveling into the appropriate classes to initially attain Uncanny Dodge would get Armor Skin instead... wouldn't do anything for those who already "have" Uncanny Dodge. For that, we'd need to do ACR scripting to check each incoming PC with rogue or barbarian levels for the feat, remove/replace etc. Not a big deal, but not quite as simple as changing a field in a single 2DA (which still requires hak updates, restaging for all servers, etc).

NWN2wiki says Armor Skin grants +1 Natural AC, so presumably this would NOT stack with an amulet of natural armor / barkskin / etc? Or has testing shown otherwise?

The scripting fixes discussed early in the topic were temporary effect-based protections that were meant to approximate the "flat-footed" start of combat situation; now it seems the replacement under discussion is a blanket +1 AC? (possibly conditional on armor type and/or DEX bonus?) Not sure I follow the progression.
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by Veilan »

AcadiusLost wrote:The scripting fixes discussed early in the topic were temporary effect-based protections that were meant to approximate the "flat-footed" start of combat situation; now it seems the replacement under discussion is a blanket +1 AC? (possibly conditional on armor type and/or DEX bonus?) Not sure I follow the progression.
Oh, the former would be preferable, we were just starting to get desperate, heh.
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by Zelknolf »

I think it was just spitballing. To be fair, though, it's not that there isn't a solution, it's that uncanny dodge affects too few characters for too short a time (i.e. rogues and barbarians for the first flurry of fights where they are surprised) to be worth fighting over, and we didn't have an improved uncanny dodge on the table (which has longer-reaching effects). If there was a TA ruling that said "Make these feats do what they say in the description." I could make it happen in PvE in a week. Iffier for PvP; I'd have to see what we had there.
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Re: Uncanny Dodge Fix

Post by dergon darkhelm »

How about we put trapsetting back in as a make-up gesture :)
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