Level 1 Start

[oldgrayrogue]

There was some discussion in another thread recently about the pros and cons of the Level 1 start in ALFA. It was suggested that a separate thread be started if anyone wished to discuss this. I know my feelings on it, so let me give the rest of you the topic:

The level 1 start is essential to the continued existence of ALFA and must never be changed

Vs.

The level 1 start really sucks and here's why

Discuss amongst your selves ...

PS I would start the discussion but I am too verklempt after losing a new PC to a lucky crit hit after I spent like 2 weeks working on a bio and backstory. And yes, my big scary hammer wielding earth genasi powerhouse toon did leave town and fight an orc alone. Now my new towering Uthgardt Barbarian toon pisses his britches everytime he gets too close to the gates of the Rivermoot bridge. Damn good RP!

[Veilan]

It's an ALFA pillar and there's that.

Oh btw, did you mean "verklemmt"? Heh.

[hollyfant]

I like "low level" play. But I also like tweaking characters with odd combinations of classes, skills and feats. So I'm conflicted.

I like roleplaying how I'm not invincible. But I also like not actually dying. So I'm conflicted.

I like ALFA sofar. And ALFA has always started at level 1. So I'm conservative. Keep it at level 1.


On a side note: having more levels to "work with" increases the risk of powergamed characters. Someone who can start as, for instance, a Barbarian-Cleric could then go solo half the server's mobs - unless we increase the dangers. And then we'll get stuck in a power spiral.

[Regalis]

There is another approach to this, although it requires compromising on another pillar. I will toss it out there for the sake of completeness, but I'm sure it will not satisfy either camp.

Permadeath could not kick in until level 3. What happens when you die at level 1 or 2 would depend upon whether or not there are other PCs in a nearby radius.

If there are conscious PCs nearby, you stabilize at -9 HP and lose all (or half?) your XP.

If there are no conscious PCs nearby, you have your XP set back to zero and get plundered by the NPCs. You could then be "blacked out"--AKA disabled and sent to an OOC room for a time out, and eventually wake up after having been drug back to a temple/inn/whatever by a mysterious [st]ranger.

That would prevent very fleshed out concepts from being stillborn due to bad luck, but provide penalties that are hefty enough that people should not develop cavalier playstyles. Call it a learning curve.

Rather than a power creep, this might encourage the opposite. (Fewer barbarians running about. )

[johnlewismcleod]

I have seen so many brilliant concept PC's die at L1 it does indeed get disheartening on occasion, but the L1 start is both canon and encourages new PC's to party up and start IC relationships with other PC's...and as hollyfant alluded to: the world is supposed to be dangerous for low levels (and mid-high levels as well ). If we start PC's at L3 we'll simply need to put more dangerous random encounters around to "keep it real".

It sucks peanuts to lose a new PC to mischance, but mischance must remain a possibility or we all get bored.

[oldgrayrogue]

It actually is NOT a Pillar Veilan:

The Pillars of ALFA
1) D&D. ALFA uses Dungeons & Dragons ("D&D").

2) Forgotten Realms. ALFA is set in the Forgotten Realms.

3) Faerunian Scope. ALFA's goal is to span Faerun.

4) Permadeath. ALFA has permadeath for player characters.

5) One PC. Players in ALFA are only allowed one player character at a time.

6) Hardcore Role Play. Players in ALFA are required to role-play their characters; meta-gaming and power-gaming shall be prohibited.

7) Persistant. ALFA's Faerun shall be persistant.

8 ) Moderated Advancement. Character level advancement shall be moderated by the DMs and by standards.

9) Controlled Wealth. Wealth, which includes gold, gems, magic items and mundane items as well as intangible items, shall be controlled by the DMs in accord with standards set by the Administration for the purpose of ensuring play balance.

Pillars 6, 8 and 9 address the other issues raised.

In my PnP games starting level was determined by the DM.

OK resume discussion.

[mr duncan]

PS I would start the discussion but I am too verklempt after losing a new PC to a lucky crit hit after I spent like 2 weeks working on a bio and backstory. And yes, my big scary hammer wielding earth genasi powerhouse toon did leave town and fight an orc alone. Now my new towering Uthgardt Barbarian toon pisses his britches everytime he gets too close to the gates of the Rivermoot bridge. Damn good RP!

I do not agree with a level change. ALFA means to encourage you to not solo combat. I hate to say it but I think this is an example of the system /working/

You put a lot of time and effort in to a character but then played it carelessly either out of boredom or maybe forgetting how hard it was to start over at level one. This does not mean our system is flawed, it means you soloed when you should not have

Having your new Uthgardt with a healthy fear of death will probably serve you well. You may come from a big bad warrior culture but you are level one, this means a young man lacking in the confidence of the many kills his tribesmen have. Barbarian or not he should have the sense not to hunt alone.

I was in the same place you were once, with a level one ECL character I wanted to survive. The things I did to keep him around? Avoided solo fighting anything, stuck to RP when I was with untrustworthy people and logged out when I was tempted to go fighting things by myself because my friends all had logged out. I treated my character like he wanted to live

Everyone who dies soloing says 'my spells ran out at the wrong time' or 'I was so close to getting out of the cave, just a bit of lag' or 'It was a lucky crit. Crits are not lucky, they happen about 5% of the time depending on the weapon.

I know your post is about starting level, but I really feel the root of your reason was that last bit you posted. Do not make up 'psycho brave' characters who dont give a damn about the odds... when you DO care about the odds. A character having a little fear is a good thing


J

[hollyfant]

Permadeath could not kick in until level 3. What happens when you die at level 1 or 2 would depend upon whether or not there are other PCs in a nearby radius.

You know... I kind of like this idea. It's certainly worth considering. I'm not sure how well it would mesh with any pretense of realism though.

[CloudDancing]

Pros:
I am currently trying out Exodus and having the three levels is fun but all the RP I have done so far is strictly "in town" and even then more talking intensive than ever needed my PC's combat abilities. Even then she has less than 20 HP and pretty much anything could kick her butt out in the wild world.

Cons:
No one starts out a master of their class, even if they try to write a background that depicts them as such. Everyone starts simply at square 1. And some people are just more sucessful than others at dying. Either they are young or something in their life has reduced them to a point of starting ALL over again.

Being tougher is not going to make you live longer. Making contacts with Players and NPCs through the DM will help you live longer.

Note: One of the trickiest parts of Alfa is the meta game. When you make a PC you might be asking yourself, "Ooo what kind cool background will I have?" or "Ooo I am going to make a powerful ****" or whatever.

But first and foremost, players really should be asking:
"Who will I play with?" *ie time zones and dm availability
"What faction should I align with?"
"Who will be my mentor? My faction?"
"What kind of friends will my PC look for?"
and if course
"How do I plan to survive?"

[Happycrow]

Noob here, but coming in from servers where lvl2+ are the norm, I'm finding a lvl1 start to be a refreshing change of pace.

[Rotku]

I know your post is about starting level, but I really feel the root of your reason was that last bit you posted. Do not make up 'psycho brave' characters who dont give a damn about the odds... when you DO care about the odds. A character having a little fear is a good thing

OGR has been supporting a high starting level since he first joined. It doesn't have to do with his character dying.

My views? I'm sort of like holly - conflicted. In the end of the day, if most people wanted a higher starting level, I wouldn't scream and shout about how unALFA it is and would happily see it in place. Reverse is the same.

[Brokenbone]

*opens the ECL can of worms*

ALFA has had non-level 1 starts for a long time, try an ECL+1/+2 character!

*closes it*

[NickD]

I'm all for shaking things up. But I have always liked starting at 1st level. I've lost a couple of characters I was very keen on keeping when they were level 1 or 2, but that was through player stupidity, and blaming not starting at level 3 is a cop-out.

As Mr. Duncan said, characters do not start out as epic heroes, so playing as if you are one means you only have yourself to blame for dying.

Of course, I can't let this thread opportunity go past without bringing up my idea for getting past the level 1-3 blues after losing a higher level character

http://www.alandfaraway.org/forums/view ... 7&start=12

How about allowing multiple characters, but with only 1 character over 3rd level?

This would be policed by bringing back the 4th level approval wand, where you can't level to 4th until a DM approves you, at which point your character will be set to have 6001XP.

[johnlewismcleod]

What Rotku said..+1

Mr D's observations and advice are excellent, of course...but OGR has retired two high level PC's and knows well how to survive.

I suspect he encountered an random orc with a crossbow on the highway while traveling, but let's not get off-topic dissecting the event...OGR has wanted this topic discussed for years now and deserves a focused discussion.

[danielmn]

If the exsisting PC's get bumped up 3k exp...I might start to consider it.