Naming conventions need to be improved

indio · Post by **indio** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:10 pm

The current naming conventions are flawed in several ways, the most prominent of which is that the primary defining characterstic of the tag/resref are the abilities of the sword/whatever, not the swords name.

This leaves you with the inconvenience of needing to identify an item by what it does, rather than what its name is, in the all important task of item exporting.

Here's an example of the current system:

03_it_a1_cs_sb1_01

Don't ask me what that item is.

The second problem with the system (and my humblest apologies to the designer of the current naming system) is that it takes several minutes to work out what the name of the item should be. I really don't have that sort of time when I'm dealing with hundreds of items.

I move we make a new system.

Here's my recommendation:

I call it: Name It Like It Is (NILIS)

It usues a simple progression.

Examples:

Long swords made for TSM.
03_wpn_swordl_01
03_wpn_swordl_02
03_wpn_swordl_03
03_wpn_swordl_+1_01
03_wpn_swordl_+1_02
03_wpn_swordl_slayer
03_wpn_swordl_acidtongue

Armor for TSM.
03_arm_fullplate_01
03_arm_fullplate_02
03_arm_fullplate_03
03_arm_fullplate_+1_01
03_arm_fullplate_+1_02
03_arm_fullplate_aegis
03_arm_fullplate_feetfoot

Gloves for TSM
03_glov_01
03_glov_+1_01
03_glov_forager

And on and on. I'm about to modify lots of items, but I'd like to achieve a consensus amongst those of us making items first. We're the ones this system effects.

Rick7475 · Post by **Rick7475** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:40 pm

I agree, Indio.

It does not allow Identification from server to server.

There is no room for individual DM ID's when creating special order items so that they can be tracked.

BTW Indio, that is wrong

03_it_a1_cs_sb1_01 -> abr_it_cs_sb1_name

And if that is wrong, you and I are both confused.

Unfortunately,, all of ALFA's items from creatures to items, to whatever follow the convention.

I like your suggestion, but might add:

03_arm_fullplate_northern (named where there are no duplicates)
03_arm_halfplate_northern

03_arm_fullplate_mun_01 (mundane) (where there maybe duplicates add numbers)
03_arm_fullplate_mun_02

03_wpn_swordl_mun_01 (mundane)
03_wpn_swordl_mun_02 (mundane)

03_wpn_swordl_mw_01
03_wpn_swordl_mw_02

03_wpn_swordl_+1_Frostbite
03_wpn_swordl_+1_Flamebalde
03_wpn_swordl_+1_Orckiller
03_wpn_swordl_+1_Indiokiller

Basically a name at the end unless there are duplicates.

For DM created items, instead of the server ID, we give it a DM ID:

rick_wpn_swordl_+1_Frostbite
indio_wpn_swordl_+1_Frostbite
jimbo_wpn_swordl_+1_Frostbite

But I must add a caveat, I think it is too late to change the items in existance before live. I suggest we grandfather the current system with a new one.

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:48 pm

I'll agree that full-correct naming of blueprint resrefs is somewhat inconvenient- I'd recommend keeping at least part of the convention though- I find the abr_it_* useful for finding things when exporting or checking a directory mode module for a resource without using the toolset. Perhaps we could keep the first few sections and lax the full property end of the convention? So, generic ALFA items might be:

abr_it_cl_warmcloak01
abr_it_wp_mwbsword01
abr_it_ar2_lthrarm01

while 003-specific ones might be

003_it_am_silverbolts01
003_it_wp_macecrude01
003_it_he_helmitehelm01

etc- that way the blueprints of like type group together, and module-specific items stay easy to track back to point of origin.

How's that sound, generally? (admittedly, I've been naming as the above already, since I get too lazy to bring up the wiki each time I tool something for a start merchant/etc)

indio · Post by **indio** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:54 pm

That's fine, AL, although thhe 2 digit code (wp, for example) needs to be a 3 or 4 digit. WP does not scream Weapon to me. WPN, however, makes some sense.

Let's talk about the abr prefix briefly.

Shouldn't abr prefix only items in the abr? Any other item must surely be prefixed by the server number, yes? 03, 01 etc?

And Rick, I'm about to redo the items today, so they make sense, so they're consistent, and so we all know what's what. So the Grandfather thing won't be necessary.

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:11 pm

If you're aiming to give the palette of 003 another pass, I might recommend waiting ~8 hours or so until Wynna can finish the merge that adds her quest items and scripts- I'd like to drop in paazin's targetable potions as well and clean up a script or two, could make another palette minimod from that merged version this evening, and upload that for you to work from.

Sound reasonable?

(I've been using the abr prefix for items like the ACR-script assigned First Aid kit, ALFA healing potions, and perhaps soon, the subdual widget- so I think it's a fair use of the prefix- they'll be included in the ACR/ABR erfs eventually once they're updated)

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:26 pm

I'm very open to refining the conventions. I find many of the two letter abbreviations confusing as well, but like AL, I do find grouping by type very useful when searching for the blueprints, especially in directory mode.

What about dropping the subtype designation and making the type a 3 letter designation? So:

abr_it_<type>_<description...>_<ID>

ex: abr_it_wpn_longsword

What we need is to create the list of possible "types" so we can not only find/recognize these blueprints by their resrefs but also attach scripted behaviors to them if we wanted to.

Here's what we've got ATM:

Code: Select all

Ammunition am
Armour aX , where X is the AC number
Bags bg
Belts be
Books bk
Boots bo
Bowls bw
Braziers bz
Cloaks ck
Creature slash weapons cs
Creature pierce weapons cp
Creature blugdeoning weapons cb
Creature slash/pierce weapons cd
Creature hides ch
Gear gr
Glasses gs
Gloves gl
Helmets he
Instruments in
Lights li
Melee wm
Necklaces ne
Potions pt
Ranged wr
Rings ri
Robes rb
Rods ro
Scrolls sc
Shields sX , where X is the AC number
Staff sf
Stones st
Thrown wt
Wands wa

We might be able to condense some of these to reduce the overall number of them, but in general, a 3 letter designation will be much clearer to recognize.

p.s. As for the abr prefix, it's use should be limited to global blueprints. For local custom blueprints, server id (in place of abr) makes sense. I think that was always the plan, actually.

indio · Post by **indio** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:53 pm

Much obliged team.

Thank you.

And yes, I will wait till Wynna uploads, then download, modify item names and export items for reimporting to the Live Mod.

Rick7475 · Post by **Rick7475** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:18 pm

OK, let me follow (sorry for derailing the trhread).

I have a mod checked out with some new stuff I have added. Indio has a mod where he will reorganize items and palettes.

How are we merging? If I import indio's changes, I still have the old stuff.

So, we need to import my changes stuff into Indio's mod? But Indio stripped the areas out?

I can list the exterior areas I changed and I have also added new interior areas plus NPC's and items, scripts, and dialogs.

Indio, how about you add all the areas back except SM, Rivermoot, Quaervar, Rauvinwatch Keep and High Hold (which I have modified to rough in some quests) and also hopefully add your new interiors. Then I will import everything I have done and follow your pallette design and try and follow your naming conventions. I'll be busy

Then afterwards, the sign out will have to apply or we'll lose stuff.

Sound good?

indio · Post by **indio** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:23 pm

Forget the merge mate.

It will be far simpler and save everyone loads of time if we do it as an export of mine, rather than a module transfer.

So for now, continue as if I'd never uploaded anything.

Rick7475 · Post by **Rick7475** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:47 pm

NP, easier done than said heh

darrenhfx · Post by **darrenhfx** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:10 am

I may be imagining this, but wasn't there a limitation to the number of characters you could use in a description?

I'm happy to use whichever system is deemed most appropriate btw.

Rick7475 · Post by **Rick7475** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:38 am

darrenhfx · Post by **darrenhfx** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:29 pm

So are we good to use the system Cipher mentioned?

What about dropping the subtype designation and making the type a 3 letter designation? So:

abr_it_<type>_<description...>_<ID>

ex: abr_it_wpn_longsword

indio · Post by **indio** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:44 am

In the absence of a proper authority, let's run with it.

darrenhfx · Post by **darrenhfx** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:08 am

Proper authority caught up with us again... wait he stepped down. Anyway.

Rusty (from chat) sez:

the reason for the 2-letter abrrvs was they were taken from nwn1,
so with a 32 character limit 3-letters makes much more sense

Fine by me.