I've seen inns handled many different ways in NWN1- doubtlessly we'll see some variation in NWN2 as well, but I'd like to get ideas on preferences before one gets bundled into a base module.
Primary purpose, from a mechanics perspective, is always going to be getting access to a rest trigger.
Secondary purpose (in some cases) is going to be secure storage of items (p chests) for encumbrance, RP, or plot reasons.
In terms of RP/PW experience, inn rooms may be many other things- preferred locations for secretive discussion, stakeout/ambush locations, meeting points, hiding places, etc. Ideally we should be able to arrive at an implementation that allows them to be used flexibly without running into OOC barriers that damage game immursion.
The ACR resting system for NWN2 separates the studying/praying events from sleeping/resting, so hopefully this should help keep things slightly more IC (no more heading across town to the inn to replace spells after praying at the shrine, for example). Still, PCs are going to need to find rest triggers (or "make camp" out in the wilderness) from time to time in order to heal and be well enough rested for spell preparation. (the two are still linked for innate casters as well).
To me, it seems natural to have most inns offer two levels of "service"- some sort of shorterm "for the night" option, as well as an openended "rent a room" system, with key and storage. The latter is more complicated from a scripting and database end, and may lead to management issues- nature of a PW, many rooms may get claimed by folks who are infrequent, making for permanently "booked" empty inns (see the Old Skull in NWN1-shadowdale for example). I've got some ideas on how this could be managed with scripting, but it may be best to wait on some of it until we get our database implementation cleared up (nwnx4 extentions and such).
If we focus on the former for a moment: what do people prefer? I've seen "common rooms" used before- shy on privacy, deducting (or not deducting) 2 gp or so per rest, no dialogue or keys required. These are trivial to script up. Another method is to "sell" keys for specific rooms from the inn merchant, which exist in a single instance in the merchant inventory- then have them reclaimed into the merchant inventory when the PC exits the inn. As such, they get the room "until they leave", at which point it's useable by someone else. Not so IC on some levels, in that you can't get a room, then go out drinking somewhere and stumble back to retire to your room without paying a second time- but it's far easier to manage than the fully scripted room/key ownership, and it manages itself fairly well. This is how I've tended to make the inns in Northern Cormyr- adding as well scripts to remove any extra keys when people enter the inn, just in case they were moved out of the area by a mod crash or something.
I believe we'll use ABR doors in the inns, so they should allow for PnP-style skill checks (listening at doors, forcing/lockpicking)- should we be setting them to plot in some cases, or restricting such use? I know this has been a concern where persistent storage was concerned in the past, as the nature of a PW means that you tend to know when no one's going to be around to notice a burglary attempt. PC storage is also going to tend to be the best loot around, in some cases.
Thoughts?
Template Inn for NWN2 basemod?
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AcadiusLost
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I agree. This system is the best and easy to replicate once the template is done. All you have to do is rename the keys and few other minor things in the scripts.
It has worked well on many NWN1 servers, WD, DF, and others.
But for persistent storage, rooming houses or tenements are ideal. Daggerford had tenements that worked well, and WD had a rooming house.
Also, PC housing should continue for the wealthier PC's.
But I would seriously adopt some standards for robbing PC persistant stores, such as only when a DM is present, or even not at all as it was on some servers.
It has worked well on many NWN1 servers, WD, DF, and others.
But for persistent storage, rooming houses or tenements are ideal. Daggerford had tenements that worked well, and WD had a rooming house.
Also, PC housing should continue for the wealthier PC's.
But I would seriously adopt some standards for robbing PC persistant stores, such as only when a DM is present, or even not at all as it was on some servers.
I'm working on this template inn now so it'll probably need to be added to the projects section as it is a work in progress..
Currently I have working -:
* Night and Day time barkeeps
* Random patron spawning with the likelihood of higher numbers of patrons at night
* Rest triggers
* Inn key system which allows you to buy a room key from the inn keeper and removes a key from your inventory if you leave the inn.
Currently working on -:
* Random walking, talking and acting patrons
* Building persistent rooms into the system
* Sittable chairs
* NPCs reacting to placeable objects
What I need -:
* ALFA Base Items to release the final version but beta versions of the inn will be available in a day or two.
What I'd like to implement -:
* A chance of a subdual type bar brawl system which would be referenced by the spawn system and could be adjusted depending on the bar. Some bars you'd get bugger all fights, other bars, you'd have people throwing each other through windows every day. After a certain amount of time start spawning guards in through the door which resets factions and removes offending NPCs
.
* Scripted bar security.
anything you lot think needs to be in an alfa template inn?
Currently I have working -:
* Night and Day time barkeeps
* Random patron spawning with the likelihood of higher numbers of patrons at night
* Rest triggers
* Inn key system which allows you to buy a room key from the inn keeper and removes a key from your inventory if you leave the inn.
Currently working on -:
* Random walking, talking and acting patrons
* Building persistent rooms into the system
* Sittable chairs
* NPCs reacting to placeable objects
What I need -:
* ALFA Base Items to release the final version but beta versions of the inn will be available in a day or two.
What I'd like to implement -:
* A chance of a subdual type bar brawl system which would be referenced by the spawn system and could be adjusted depending on the bar. Some bars you'd get bugger all fights, other bars, you'd have people throwing each other through windows every day. After a certain amount of time start spawning guards in through the door which resets factions and removes offending NPCs
.* Scripted bar security.
anything you lot think needs to be in an alfa template inn?
On indefinite real life hiatus
[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
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AcadiusLost
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What sort of items were you looking for? (from ABR Items, that is)
Also, I'd recommend also checking keys on_enter somehow- in NC I did this from the exterior door's scripts, though it's harder to control that since we've only got an interior to work with. Basically, if the PC gets DM jumped out or ends up outside due to a mod reset or something, you'll end up with duplicate keys otherwise.
I'd suggest holding off on the subdual bar brawling initially- Ronan did some subdual coding for the ACR a long time back, but it's incomplete and untested- no idea if it would even work on NPCs. It might also require giving all your patrons special custom creature weapons to simulate subdual fists, and would tend to end in quite a few PC-patron bloodbaths (especially as we don't have a toggleable subdual mode for PCs yet). I'd put it on the "cool to have" list, but I don't think the infrastructure supports it yet.
Looking forward to testing the inn template. Do we want to add some kind of a "changing room" that's free of charge? I often find I've reason to switch my PC in or out of armor as a player, and it doesn't make much sense to have to buy and sell a room key each time to accomplish this IC.
For the patrons, are you using one or two template blueprints and customizing them with on-spawn scripts, or do you have a larger set of NPCs to pull from?
Also, I'd recommend also checking keys on_enter somehow- in NC I did this from the exterior door's scripts, though it's harder to control that since we've only got an interior to work with. Basically, if the PC gets DM jumped out or ends up outside due to a mod reset or something, you'll end up with duplicate keys otherwise.
I'd suggest holding off on the subdual bar brawling initially- Ronan did some subdual coding for the ACR a long time back, but it's incomplete and untested- no idea if it would even work on NPCs. It might also require giving all your patrons special custom creature weapons to simulate subdual fists, and would tend to end in quite a few PC-patron bloodbaths (especially as we don't have a toggleable subdual mode for PCs yet). I'd put it on the "cool to have" list, but I don't think the infrastructure supports it yet.
Looking forward to testing the inn template. Do we want to add some kind of a "changing room" that's free of charge? I often find I've reason to switch my PC in or out of armor as a player, and it doesn't make much sense to have to buy and sell a room key each time to accomplish this IC.
For the patrons, are you using one or two template blueprints and customizing them with on-spawn scripts, or do you have a larger set of NPCs to pull from?
I steered away from those intially, knowing how much trouble we had with randomising features onspawn in NWN1. theres two different innkeepers and 6 different patrions at this stage.. my thought was to leave simple customisation up to the builder although I would like random people in my inns once the setname features are working.. that way we can change names, faces and clothes.For the patrons, are you using one or two template blueprints and customizing them with on-spawn scripts, or do you have a larger set of NPCs to pull from?
There is an argument for the less busy inns to have similar people pop up on an ongoing basis though.. not very realistic to have calishite traders, northern barbarians and kozakurans taking over a bar in backwater hicksville..
and yes bar brawling and security scripts are a ways off yet.. I just wanted to get some feedback on them since this is still a brainstorm..
I'll add the powder room/jakes to the template
What sort of items were you looking for? (from ABR Items, that is)
food, drink, that sort of thing.. I've made a few basic items to cover that can go in the mix if people want them..
On indefinite real life hiatus
[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
first release should be finished by tomorrow..
its not perfect but it has -:
* Rest triggers in rooms
* Random walking patrons
* An innkeeper merchant that sells drinks and keys to the rooms
* A script that purges keys on enter and exit to the inn
* Sittable chairs and stools for tall folk
* Sorry wee folk, your chairs are a little way off.. they are taking me too long.. I'll come back to you.
* Beds you can lie down on
Theres more functionality I want to add which I will add with Zhentil Keep's first inn. I'll make the stuff generic once thats done..
its not perfect but it has -:
* Rest triggers in rooms
* Random walking patrons
* An innkeeper merchant that sells drinks and keys to the rooms
* A script that purges keys on enter and exit to the inn
* Sittable chairs and stools for tall folk
* Sorry wee folk, your chairs are a little way off.. they are taking me too long.. I'll come back to you.
* Beds you can lie down on
Theres more functionality I want to add which I will add with Zhentil Keep's first inn. I'll make the stuff generic once thats done..
On indefinite real life hiatus
[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
no but I can teach you to if you want..Thangs - that is AWESOME! Can you include a night stand with a little music box playing the Brahms lullaby?
On indefinite real life hiatus
[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
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AcadiusLost
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Looking great, Thangorn- what code are you using to loop the lying down on the beds? I've tried quite a few methods for the Resting and Bleeding scripts, but all seem to have their drawbacks so far. Maybe you hit on something I didn't try.
Also, how have you handled the entry control for keys? Will it affect PCs who log out or crash while (locked) in their inn rooms, and then have to reenter the area as they log back in?
Also, how have you handled the entry control for keys? Will it affect PCs who log out or crash while (locked) in their inn rooms, and then have to reenter the area as they log back in?
i'm working the key removal script onareatransition into the doors to the exterior (which means the scripts need to be added to the exterior inn doors aswell just in case theres a DM port out or a server reset) means that onareaenter/exit/cliententer the key wont be removed..
It'd be better if this code is in the abr door scripts onareatransition script and builders just have to add a string variable to the door (referencing the first 10 letters of the tag) to make it take away keys..
For lying down I used a custom animation wrapper which i nicked off Patcha's chair sitting scripts.
The lying down is actually two animations a fireforget and a custom.. the first anim in the series is ANIMATION_FIREFORGET_LAYDOWN which I delayed the command 1 second and made it play over 3 seconds and the custom animation is called through a script that calls the 2da string "proneB" and loops it after a 3 second delay..
The beauty of the beds is, you can actually stand on top of them as thats the only way I could get the anims to play at that height..
Sleepable single and double bed prefabs will be in the base mod just dont stick too many of them in one room, the walkmesh hates it when you do that. All you have to do, is drop em in the room and bake to make them work..
It'd be better if this code is in the abr door scripts onareatransition script and builders just have to add a string variable to the door (referencing the first 10 letters of the tag) to make it take away keys..
For lying down I used a custom animation wrapper which i nicked off Patcha's chair sitting scripts.
The lying down is actually two animations a fireforget and a custom.. the first anim in the series is ANIMATION_FIREFORGET_LAYDOWN which I delayed the command 1 second and made it play over 3 seconds and the custom animation is called through a script that calls the 2da string "proneB" and loops it after a 3 second delay..
The beauty of the beds is, you can actually stand on top of them as thats the only way I could get the anims to play at that height..
Sleepable single and double bed prefabs will be in the base mod just dont stick too many of them in one room, the walkmesh hates it when you do that. All you have to do, is drop em in the room and bake to make them work..
On indefinite real life hiatus
[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
[22:52] <Veilan> obviously something sinister must be afoot if a DM does not have his social security number in his avatar name!
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ç i p h é r
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