Warlocks

Rotku · Post by **Rotku** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:26 am

What's happening with them? They look very over powered on paper, but how are they in game? Are we allowing them? And if so, how will they be looked upon in FR? And no, I'm not talking about White Warlock - I'm sure we can find it in us to let him in ALFA

Fionn · Post by **Fionn** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:14 pm

I played with one in the betatest - they were weak if anything. The elemental damage might be slightly better than an archer, and it does get better, but you can't get magic bow/arrow to beef it. Overall, the only thing that really seemed to save them was the Gargoyle shape.

witch · Post by **witch** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:54 am

Warlock

compared to single class cleric/mage/druid

i put my money on those.

The warlock is a nice idea and would have been a lot more interesting if he had 4 skillpoints per level instead of 2, halve the fun powers are nigh to useless now since ya dont have enough skillpoints to buy em coz ya have to spend most on concentration to be able to use the ray in combat.

so youd have to multiclass to get advantage of the skill related "spells" but then lose on the effectiveness on the warlockblast.

The only power i would see in it. is taking 1 to 3 levels of warlock with for instance rogue.

the +4 dex and tumble for 24 hours is pretty usefull especially for the duration it has.
but besides that the warlock gets eaten alive by a true spellcaster after 3-4 levels

im playing one level 7 currently in nwn2 and a cleric same level is still lot more nasty so if we want to nerf warlocks.. lets get rid of them clerics first

Murgh Bpurn · Post by **Murgh Bpurn** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:08 am

Just started playing one and he's at level 4, I find Beguiling Influence very useful. Gives +6 to Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate.

With his +3 Cha bonus and skill levels, makes for a very persuasive guy, who doesn't need to fight as much!

I also took medium armour proficiency and battle caster as his 2 starting feats, to make him more hardy in melee combat. Seems to be working quite well and when used with Hideous Blow (Eldritch blast is applied to caster's melee attacks) he can hold his own when one on one.

White Warlock · Post by **White Warlock** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:28 am

Murgh Bpurn wrote:Just started playing one and he's at level 4, I find Beguiling Influence very useful. Gives +6 to Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate.

With his +3 Cha bonus and skill levels, makes for a very persuasive guy, who doesn't need to fight as much!

Are you sure you're not talking about me?

Murgh Bpurn · Post by **Murgh Bpurn** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:45 pm

White Warlock wrote:
Murgh Bpurn wrote:Just started playing one and he's at level 4, I find Beguiling Influence very useful. Gives +6 to Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate.

With his +3 Cha bonus and skill levels, makes for a very persuasive guy, who doesn't need to fight as much!
Are you sure you're not talking about me?

There's also a discussion going on here in the Neverwinter Night 2 Forums - Builders: NWN2 Persistent Worlds

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:20 pm

I have started playing the NWN2 OC with a drow warlock. By the middle of the "fair" the little boy you can get on your team as a thief could kick the snot out of my drow warlock. Its a fun concept, but right now the only thing making it playable is the pause feature; having to repeatedly target moving creatures with your powers in combat results in a lot of missed actions. Obviously we will not have the pause feature for PCs in the future. So, straight up, I am not too impressed with the class. I am going to try a variety of races for the class of course, but what is really getting to me is not the raw power (which appears weak) but the interface-mechanics which are clunky (and therefore potentially lethal). The one great advantage the Warlock will have in ALFA2 is that the Warlock does not need to rest. Thats fine, but neither does a fighter, ranger, rogue, etc. And the warlock's powers are not that great, at least not that I have seen yet.

Now Clerics on the other hand, those are still powerful PCs. What can I say? Lolth loves her priestesses...

Fionn · Post by **Fionn** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:57 pm

err... Mik? Hit tab and look at what's targetted. Once you have a target, you can just hit the bolt button repeatedly and stack up attacks at that target.

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:53 pm

Fionn:

err... Mik? Hit tab and look at what's targetted. Once you have a target, you can just hit the bolt button repeatedly and stack up attacks at that target.

Whoa. Cool. Thanks. Warlocks for the .... **almost finished speaking but still gets pwned by her 8-year old rogue sidekick**

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:18 pm

Anyone up to comment on the RP aspects of warlocks? As a nonstandard class, I'd expect we'd want to consider more than just the balance aspects- are they supposed to have brokered with specific infernal or abyssal Powers to gain their abilities, or is it supposed to be a bloodline/spontaneous thing like sorcerers?

If the warlock class presupposes a specific source for their powers, it significantly ups the DM-side burden for such PCs- you'd want cross-server consistency on how their patron/patroness was played, and use it as a check to their power, wouldn't exactly be able to just consult F&P like you can with clerics. If the player is detailing the contact themselves as part of their background, it ties a DM's hands somewhat. To me, it seems more like a PrC than a base class, and potentially more trouble than it's worth in a persistent world setting.

Though, maybe I've got the wrong idea about the class features, I don't own the PHB2. Thoughts?

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:41 pm

Warlocks are in the Complete Arcane. Anyway, Warlocks are folks whose blood has something in it that gives them power. The PHB suggests that sorcerors get their innate magical powers from dragons - Complete Arcane suggest that Warlocks get their innate powers from fiends and such. Eitherway, I do not think the RP background of Warlocks is any more difficult to deal with than tieflings or aasimar. Indeed, its somewhat simpler as the Warlock's fiendish/extraplanar ancestor is so far back in their history that they are not half-fiends (born of fiends) or tieflings (born of folk born of fiends and such) or plane-touched at all. They just have some innate powers like sorcerors do. So, I don't see a problem. As for being a prestige class, I don't think Warlocks work well as a prestige class as the class does not build upon anything in any other class - similarly, no prestige classes work well WITH warlocks as none continue to expand the warlock's powers. Warlocks are a class that benefits primarily from being single classed so far as I can tell (though one or two levels of fighter or rogue for the martial or stealth abilities makes sense).

Anyway, just my thoughts. In PnP I think the class is very, very powerful. In NWN2, so far I am not impressed.

Murgh Bpurn · Post by **Murgh Bpurn** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:42 pm

A couple of online descriptions of Warlocks here and here.

From the Wiki

Warlocks in Dungeons & Dragons receive their powers through the influence of some powerful being, such as a Demon, Devil, Fey or Elemental creature and are either born with these powers or receive them through pacts.

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:07 pm

I guess my thinking was based around the "pacts" part, and is entirely based in the storyline/RP justification for the powers, was thinking about them more along the lines of the Blackguard PrC. If it's just powers from some distant ancestor who they don't even have to know about, I suppose that part is, as you say, no more trouble than any other background.

So are people generally in favor of allowing the class, assuming it isn't judged to be unbalanced? I don't like the idea, but then again I don't like PrCs either, so I'm just strange that way. I haven't really heard anyone else who seems to share my sense that it is an odd fit for ALFA.

How are Warlocks seen in FR canon? (since I haven't heard of them in any FR canon, anywhere). Would they be shunned, reviled, and ostracized in the same way as tieflings? Would the fear/suspicion be mostly in small towns, or equally strong in "civilized" areas? I feel like I have some grip on the nuances of relations between Wizards and Sorcerers- but how do Warlocks play into things?

To me, I'd have rather seen a game-balanced Spellfire Wielder class added (as horrible as it is), than Warlocks, because at least then I'd have some sense of canonical context. Or are there a pile of warlocks in more recent novels and sourcebooks I haven't read yet?

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:31 pm

I am in favor of leaving Warlocks in the mix. The class does not seem out of balance at this time. I have not, however, seen any novels with Warlocks in them yet - but then I have not read a WotC book since the first of the Last Mythal trilogy, and the Warlock is relatively new. How would they be treated? Well, to the untrained eye I think they would be nearly indistinguishable from sorcerors as each possesses a limited set of repeatable magic powers (the sorceror's set being more limited in repetition, while the warlocks is more limited in use).

Of course, while the Warlock class is not all that powerful (or so it appears at the low levels in NWN2 so far) it does have one cool thing going for it - the name! Warlock is a cool name, and the female version of warlock is a witch! Hee hee. So far that coolness has not kept my warlock PC from getting pwned, but I like it none-the-less. I just cannot bring myself to call my cleric PC a witch, even though she certainly has more spells. C'est la vie.

Joos · Post by **Joos** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:14 pm

AcadiusLost wrote:I guess my thinking was based around the "pacts" part, and is entirely based in the storyline/RP justification for the powers, was thinking about them more along the lines of the Blackguard PrC. If it's just powers from some distant ancestor who they don't even have to know about, I suppose that part is, as you say, no more trouble than any other background.

So are people generally in favor of allowing the class, assuming it isn't judged to be unbalanced? I don't like the idea, but then again I don't like PrCs either, so I'm just strange that way. I haven't really heard anyone else who seems to share my sense that it is an odd fit for ALFA.

How are Warlocks seen in FR canon? (since I haven't heard of them in any FR canon, anywhere). Would they be shunned, reviled, and ostracized in the same way as tieflings? Would the fear/suspicion be mostly in small towns, or equally strong in "civilized" areas? I feel like I have some grip on the nuances of relations between Wizards and Sorcerers- but how do Warlocks play into things?

To me, I'd have rather seen a game-balanced Spellfire Wielder class added (as horrible as it is), than Warlocks, because at least then I'd have some sense of canonical context. Or are there a pile of warlocks in more recent novels and sourcebooks I haven't read yet?

I don't think anyone would go around telling people "I'm a warlock!" a'la Order of the Stick style.

The young woman looks over to the new member of the party after a close cornered battle where the brooding man had released a series of magic blasts as he carefully moved around the tide of battle.

"What in the nine hells was that?" She exclaims as she catches her breath. "I've never seen anything like that..."

The man gives her a wry smile back at the comment as he is laughing inside at some endlessly funny joke noone else would get. After a time, he answers back carefully.

"I guess you have never seen a magicuser in armour before? It's not easy, I assure you, it takes special talent and singular conviction to wield magic as I do." With a smile showing wite teeth he bends over the broken forms of their foes, and starts going through their belts and pouches.

The huntress turns around after the explanation. Seemed logical enough but she feels like as if there was something he held back or didnt tell. "Well, we all have our secrets and faults don't we? Who in their right mind but the desperate and the foolhardy would choose this life if they didn't have to?" With the thought she bends down and helps the out in looting the bandits corpses. One have to earn your living some way...