NWN2: Rules

[Dorn]

I'd like to ask some questions in terms of rules so we can either approve them or discuss them further:

1) Will we be using the canon allowable multi-classes for paladins and monks? (ie can FREELY multi-class with these other classes)

2) Will the PrC requirements change from the existing structure?

3) Will the level 4 and subsequent validation continue to apply?

4) Will the rule preventing druids of Meilikki be able to use ranger equipment as per cannon be removed?

5) Will level 20 be the limit for ALFA2

6) Will the domains for clerics be the same as they are (ie summaries in the APM to match NWN to DnD) or will they be expanded on to cover 'real' domains?

7) Is taking correct domains mandatory (ALFA1 this rule has been...patchy....from what i've been told)?

Are the death rules going to change? (ie con penalty or remain with just exp loss etc etc)

[Amar]

At my best guesses...

1) Will we be using the canon allowable multi-classes for paladins and monks? (ie can FREELY multi-class with these other classes)

This will most likely remain in place, yes.

2) Will the PrC requirements change from the existing structure?

They should be upgraded to 3.5, new ones may be added.

3) Will the level 4 and subsequent validation continue to apply?

Most likely, it has worked in practice.

4) Will the rule preventing druids of Meilikki be able to use ranger equipment as per cannon be removed?

NWN2 will be 3.5 rules, so druid restrictions will no longer include weapons. All druids will be able to use any weapon they are proficient with now.

5) Will level 20 be the limit for ALFA2

Should be. Better be. I hope so.

6) Will the domains for clerics be the same as they are (ie summaries in the APM to match NWN to DnD) or will they be expanded on to cover 'real' domains?

Will likely be whatever bioware gives us, maybe expanding if its possible.

7) Is taking correct domains mandatory (ALFA1 this rule has been...patchy....from what i've been told)?

Should be.

Are the death rules going to change? (ie con penalty or remain with just exp loss etc etc)

XP loss works well enough in practice, and should remain IMO.

[Rumple C]

con penalty!

and hopefuly they get the cleric domains right this time. Luck in, crazily overpowered animal domain put back to what it should be.

[fluffmonster]

I'd like to ask some questions in terms of rules so we can either approve them or discuss them further:

1) Will we be using the canon allowable multi-classes for paladins and monks? (ie can FREELY multi-class with these other classes)

That isn't what we have now? If not, I think what we have now is the closest we will get.

2) Will the PrC requirements change from the existing structure?

Given the apparent freedom there will be in adding PrCs, we can certainly think about openning up more of them. Other than that, you would have to be more specific about "requirements". The 2-server travel requirement will likely go away, and before NWN2. Other than that, you will have to be specific. In general, because there's a lot more room for PrCs here, it would be worth putting a PrC review group back together to look at the ones we have and potential additions.

3) Will the level 4 and subsequent validation continue to apply?

Almost certainly, unless db functionality adds a whole lot more than we know what to do with currently.

4) Will the rule preventing druids of Meilikki be able to use ranger equipment as per cannon be removed?

We will move to 3.5 along with the game, so yes.

5) Will level 20 be the limit for ALFA2

definitely, non-negotiable.

6) Will the domains for clerics be the same as they are (ie summaries in the APM to match NWN to DnD) or will they be expanded on to cover 'real' domains?

Domains will reflect as closely as possible those for the diety in F&P. If more are available in the game, then yes of course some will be changed.

7) Is taking correct domains mandatory (ALFA1 this rule has been...patchy....from what i've been told)?

Its mandatory now. DMs should be requiring rebuilds of PCs that do not have correct domains. What is patchy is enforcement...there, it really depends on what the DM on the ground does. If nobody ever knows about bad domains on a PC, hard to do anthing about it.

Are the death rules going to change? (ie con penalty or remain with just exp loss etc etc)

any particular reason they should change? we don't seem to have the rezzomatic problems we had in the first year or so.

[Spider Jones]

Are the death rules going to change? (ie con penalty or remain with just exp loss etc etc)

One thing of note, raise dead, ressurection, et cetera all have a much greater material component cost in 3.5 D&D, and I hope we will be using these new values. Raise dead has a 5,000 gp component, Resurrection has a 10,000 gp component, True Resurrection has a 25,000 gp component.

EDIT: Quoted the wrong question, damned smiley thing threw me off. ; p

[Mikayla]

My thoughts on Dorn's questions:

1) Will we be using the canon allowable multi-classes for paladins and monks? (ie can FREELY multi-class with these other classes)

I would support going with the canon rule.

2) Will the PrC requirements change from the existing structure?

There are two structures; one is comprised of the rule requirements (such as the minimum BAB, prerequisite skills and feats, etc) which is set by the game engine but presumably mutable. To the extent we can make it follow canon, I suggest that we do. The second structure is our own 4-tiered structure about how to DM someone who wishes to advance in a PrC - that structure I can take or leave.

3) Will the level 4 and subsequent validation continue to apply?

Absent a daily, weekly or monthly cap on the number of experience points a person can gain (which I do support) then yes, I think we need validation as a way to detect possible power-gamers. The hard-cap that is frequently discussed eliminates the need for validation however.

4) Will the rule preventing druids of Meilikki be able to use ranger equipment as per cannon be removed?

I think they should - we should go with canon. Yes, that means there will be a lot of druids of Miellikki, but, well, so what?

5) Will level 20 be the limit for ALFA2

I hope so.

6) Will the domains for clerics be the same as they are (ie summaries in the APM to match NWN to DnD) or will they be expanded on to cover 'real' domains?

I would think this entirely depends on what domains we have available in NWN2. My suspicion is we will not get all domains available (for instance, I doubt we will get a 'spider' domain, though as a cleric of Lolth, that would be my first choice for a domain every time). Once we know what is available, we can do what we did in ALFA1 - make a list of deities and their approved domains.

7) Is taking correct domains mandatory (ALFA1 this rule has been...patchy....from what i've been told)?

I was unaware this rule was 'patchy' but if so, it should be enforced in both ALFA1 and ALFA2.

8 ) Are the death rules going to change? (ie con penalty or remain with just exp loss etc etc)

As much as peeps may not like to hear this - I think, once again (consider it my theme) - that we should stick as close to canon rules as possible.

OK, good questions Dorn - and those are my thoughts.

[idoru]

1) Will we be using the canon allowable multi-classes for paladins and monks? (ie can FREELY multi-class with these other classes)

Most likely. This may in fact change for ALFA 1 as well, with the new APM version. Stay tuned.

2) Will the PrC requirements change from the existing structure?

The one thing that there's talk about now is dropping the cross-server quest requirement, which sounds reasonable to me.

3) Will the level 4 and subsequent validation continue to apply?

As you can see in the admin meeting chatlog, we discussed changing this to validation at 5 and 10, with a mandatory levelup quest for 15.

4) Will the rule preventing druids of Meilikki be able to use ranger equipment as per cannon be removed?

I'm going to have to pass on that one.. Simply haven't thought about it. Make your case to me, if you like.

5) Will level 20 be the limit for ALFA2

Yes. God yes.

6) Will the domains for clerics be the same as they are (ie summaries in the APM to match NWN to DnD) or will they be expanded on to cover 'real' domains?

No idea how NwN 2 will handle domains, so we shall have to wait and see.

7) Is taking correct domains mandatory (ALFA1 this rule has been...patchy....from what i've been told)?

It is mandatory now, and should remain so in the future.

[MShady]

3) Will the level 4 and subsequent validation continue to apply?

Absent a daily, weekly or monthly cap on the number of experience points a person can gain (which I do support) then yes, I think we need validation as a way to detect possible power-gamers. The hard-cap that is frequently discussed eliminates the need for validation however.

I think there should be an addition to the rules on validation. Namely, if it is not done in a timely fashion, the player is validated if no one gets around to doing it in a timely manner.

It happens, somewhat often even now, I'd hate to think with a much higher server density. Is there a reason why there cannot be a reasonable time frame instead of open ended? Also, a rule about DMs who don't really/ever play with you or on there server trying to block leveling should also be included. I know when I raised this issue with Idoru, his comment to me was DMs can do anything they want up to killing a PC, but I think there are some problems with some of the secondary factors in level validation. DMs should not be able to do whatever they want, hold up validations for however long they want till you have to have it pried from someone's cold dead fingers. There needs to be more guidance on this issue.

Mike

[MShady]

Level Quests are a really good example of open ended waiting for someone to get around to actually doing them. If you really want to do them, fine, but give the person the level under condition they do the level up quest, not hold advancement hostage to coordinating a bunch of factors. I'm not sure there is really any harm in doing it that way.

Mike

[Wynna]

I'd like to ask some questions in terms of rules so we can either approve them or discuss them further:

1) Will we be using the canon allowable multi-classes for paladins and monks? (ie can FREELY multi-class with these other classes)

2) Will the PrC requirements change from the existing structure?

3) Will the level 4 and subsequent validation continue to apply?

4) Will the rule preventing druids of Meilikki be able to use ranger equipment as per cannon be removed?

5) Will level 20 be the limit for ALFA2

6) Will the domains for clerics be the same as they are (ie summaries in the APM to match NWN to DnD) or will they be expanded on to cover 'real' domains?

7) Is taking correct domains mandatory (ALFA1 this rule has been...patchy....from what i've been told)?

8) Are the death rules going to change? (ie con penalty or remain with just exp loss etc etc)

In my opinion, (and some of your questions will need to go before Admin for a vote so my opinion is just that...opinion), here are the ways I'd see it.

1. Carry over the same paladin/monk multiclass rules as are current.
2. There's a discussion now over removing the multi-server PrC quest requirement and allowing any two DMs to oversee PrC quests for individual PCs.
3. I prefer an experience cap of 1500 - 2000xp/week, with validation only at 5, 10 and 15 and a mandatory high level quest at 15.
4. Carry over the same rules as current.
5. Yes.
6. As in coding new domains? I'd like a techie to speak to how hard that would be before considering it.
7. Mandatory if they exist in NWN2. Patchiness of enforcement in this is not due to the rule existing.
8. I remember supporting Sticky Fingers of Death when it was approved a year or more ago. I would like to get it in place but need to contact White Warlock to get the outline of it. When I have it, I'll post it. Basically, as I fuzzily recall it, it addresses death in a much more permanent way that includes degrees of 'dead'. (Yes. Ded. Dedder. Deddest.)

[Grand Fromage]

4) Will the rule preventing druids of Meilikki be able to use ranger equipment as per cannon be removed?

4. Carry over the same rules as current.

No... I should point out that in 3.5, druids no longer have weapon restrictions, so the question isn't relevant.

[Racerblue]

Could we possibly revisit the bleed down script...I think downed players bleed way too fast right now..even with a cleric in the group with a readied spell, you sometimes don't get there in time..

[NickD]

Could we possibly revisit the bleed down script...I think downed players bleed way too fast right now..even with a cleric in the group with a readied spell, you sometimes don't get there in time..

... It's once an IG hour last time I checked...

[Rumple C]

once an in game hour if they are stabilised

an hp every combat round i think if they arent.

[Spider Jones]

Hmm, well, in PnP the cleric can usually act immediately and have you healed in a couple of rounds, it's a little more rough in NWN. I'd be for changing it to every two combat rounds.