Level 1 Start - The Poll

Ideas and suggestions for game mechanics and rules.
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Do you support a starting level at higher than level 1? (NB: Excluding ECLs etc)

Poll ended at Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:24 pm

Yes
29
49%
No
25
42%
Maybe / I Don't Know
5
8%
 
Total votes: 59

Veilan
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by Veilan »

You know, we probably wouldn't even have this discussion in the first place if we had 24/7 DM coverage and more player. More DMs are the solution to all of ALFA's woes, heh.

I also agree with OGR that everyone is free to create a fearless PC, whose stats best match his character (probably a low wisdom - an 8 year old is fearless because she lacks awareness and comprehension of the world's dangers... anyway, abilities are always open to debate). There are limits as to what skills, abilities and feats you can possess at level 1 though, and that should reflect.

What I'm saying is, you cannot demand or expect that a fearless character is almost guaranteed to survive. Because then we're getting pretty close to sitting down as a board game only, where everyone can play whatever he wants. Would that be bad for roelplay? No, not at all, it allows even more concepts and roleplay opportunities than this limited-by-reality simulationism nonsense this Veilan dude is spouting, frothing from his mouth, wailing like a banshee! :shock:

So, yeah. All this having to gain levels to actually support the abilities I want is hindering my roleplay, since I want to roleplay having these abilities already, not gaining them! Let's all pick whatever level we want!
No, honestly, polemic exaggerations aside, I've played "free form" games like that, and they can be oodles of fun. They're not ALFA though.

But it's not really what we want anyway, is it? The most fun from ALFA comes from the fact that it is a simulated world. Characters usually are believable and plastic, and heroes heroes, because they are real heroes. Not jump-start-past-the-critical-phase decal pictures of heroes. Everyone has and had to take tough choices, in character. Does my inexperienced character's fear of drow outweigh her loyalty for her friends who want to go and hunt them? That's where the fun begins.
If you want to roleplay a fearless, violent character, you have that freedom. But why do you want to skirt the reality checks that are the lower levels - everyone's seemingly tougher than you, and the static spawns are scary - present? That's just... well, narrativism. If you want to tell a good tale, write down a good tale. In ALFA, however, the tale should emerge dynamically, and realistically, from what actually happens. I too agree that the low hit point, doubling at second level sucks - hence why I offered a reasonable compromise via the toughness feat, for instance - and I also agree that it's bloody risky to go out hunting orcs on level 1. The difference being that I think that's exactly what it should be.

Now maybe I'm just not as cool as you, but my fighter 2 was far from fearless and broke down and cried after an ambush in the Waterdeep sewers where she had only went out of loyalty to her friends. However, with time came abilities, and so she grew to tell an adult white dragon to get the fuck out of her way over a dozen levels later. The dragon did.

You can be anything you want in ALFA. You just have to earn it, through a believable and realistic, simulation-proof path of development. It's a chance, not a hindrance, and there is so much to gain if we allow ourselves to enjoy the journey, roleplaying each step, and not think we can "only roleplay properly if we have reached the destination". That's just not true, it's limiting your own roleplay and enjoyment.

Also, Jean-Paul Sartre.

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Mick
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by Mick »

Veilan, you are officially killing me.
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by Veilan »

Mick wrote:Veilan, you are officially killing me.
Do I get loot, xp or both?
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Brokenbone
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by Brokenbone »

All this time in posting threads, anyone could have sat emoting in a tavern and gotten to 2nd or 3rd by now instead.
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Veilan
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by Veilan »

What do you think we were doing in the meantime alt-tabbed? :twisted:
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Ksiel
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by Ksiel »

I wish some of you would allow others to post. For example, Velian has 20% (13 of 65) of the posts so far in this forum. Allow others to post their oppinions without bringing yours back up every time.

We get it. You are not for a starting level higher than level 1.

One question. If Exodus and ALFA do merge completely. They are level 3 start, we are level 1. A compromise would be level 2, would it not?
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oldgrayrogue
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by oldgrayrogue »

At the risk of pissing off everyone with another post:
Veilan wrote: almost guaranteed to survive.
does NOT equal level 2.

Seriously. We are not talking about jumping to epic levels here. Almost guaranteed to die if you leave town alone does, however, equal level 1. Which sucks. I don't want people to be able to tell dragons to piss off at character creation, but I also don't want to have to play them cowering and crying in a corner if an orc walks by in order to OOC survive. Its not risk free "narativism" its freaking 1000xp that many people earn in like a day and a half.

-Nuff said.
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Mirabai
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by Mirabai »

Definitely yes. I think it should be level 3 start because there is nothing more frustrating, infuriating, pathetic, stupid, and joy-killing than putting the thought and time into a character you're excited about and then dying to a rat bite right out of the starting gate.
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by danielmn »

Veilan wrote: You can be anything you want in ALFA. You just have to earn it, through a believable and realistic, simulation-proof path of development.
*coughs* And DM Farming..... *coughs* :P :twisted:
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CloudDancing
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by CloudDancing »

Here is another option, as I said before:

1. Require a completed and coherent bio

2. Mandatory attendance to an orientation session and general meet and greet for players that is facillitated by a dm.
(while Rotku is correct in addressing our Live DM HR issues, I believe appointments and setting a monthly orientation would prove wise and get us in touch with players. It would also help us to catch problems like min-maxing and set guidelines for RP (such as the elven Palli of Tyr and characters with such low CHA, one wonders how others can either stand their personalities or their disfigured looks))

3. Followed by a nice boost of XP to level 2 or 3 and a nice warm homey feeling that a player has been recognized and their needs met early on.

Which would require a few changes on TSM which I would like to see:

1. Scripts implemented that spawns give no XP past level 3 in start areas

2. Scripts implemented with 12 hour rotations on repeatable statics

3. Accrued XP be turned down 25% and idle times shortened to two minutes idle
(seeing a PC with more than 75% accrued total XP is what prompted this thought. That means only 25% of that players XP came from DM time or static quests over a span of nearly 10 levels.)

4. Like to see spawn loot devauled or vendor buyback's depreciation increased
Last edited by CloudDancing on Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:58 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Rotku
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by Rotku »

Cloud_Dancing wrote:2. Mandatory attendance to an orientation session and general meet and greet for players that is facillitated by a dm.
We're shorted staffed as it is.
1. Scripts implemented that spawns give no XP past level 3 in start areas

3. Accrued XP be turned down 25% and idle times shortened to two minutes idle
So you're saying higher start, slower progression?
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by I-KP »

oldgrayrogue wrote:Its not risk free "narativism" its freaking 1000xp that many people earn in like a day and a half.
I'm surprised to hear that's possible. It took me about a week to accumulate 1000XP c/o DM awards and timed XP w/ no statics completed, which I believe would be the case if I were on BG (or Amn).
Cloud_Dancing wrote:3. Accrued XP be turned down 25% and idle times shortened to two minutes idle
(seeing a PC with more than 75% accrued total XP is what prompted this thought. That means only 25% of that players XP came from DM time or static quests over a span of nearly 10 levels.)
I strongly disagree with this. It strikes me as being a knee-jerk punitive measure that will hurt the folks who see few players/DMs the most - just the guys you don't want to be putting the boot into for something that isn't their fault. Speaking from experience, I don’t know how much of Tam’s XP has come from timed XP but I’m suspecting that it will be rather on the high side. I do not think that I am doing anything wrong by staying logged in to a server even when there is nothing at all going on. (I will admit to often remaining logged in yet doing other things – work, chatting, surfing, other games, etc – c/o the joy of Windowed mode but will pop back in when/if something/someone happens along. I suspect that I am not alone in this regard.)
Last edited by I-KP on Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Swift
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by Swift »

If the issue is simply the survivability of level 1s, you could just do what DDO did and give everyone a feat that grants them +20 hp :lol:
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by Veilan »

oldgrayrogue wrote:At the risk of pissing off everyone with another post:
Veilan wrote: almost guaranteed to survive.
does NOT equal level 2.

Seriously. We are not talking about jumping to epic levels here. Almost guaranteed to die if you leave town alone does, however, equal level 1. Which sucks. I don't want people to be able to tell dragons to piss off at character creation, but I also don't want to have to play them cowering and crying in a corner if an orc walks by in order to OOC survive. Its not risk free "narativism" its freaking 1000xp that many people earn in like a day and a half.

-Nuff said.
Take your pick, mate. Either it's significant difference, in which case my argument is entirely valid... or it's not a big deal reached in 1 1/2 days legitimately, in which case I don't see the reason to push so hard for it. Can't have both sides at the same time.
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Re: Level 1 Start - The Poll

Post by Veilan »

danielmn wrote:
Veilan wrote: You can be anything you want in ALFA. You just have to earn it, through a believable and realistic, simulation-proof path of development.
*coughs* And DM Farming..... *coughs* :P :twisted:
Veilan wrote:You know, we probably wouldn't even have this discussion in the first place if we had 24/7 DM coverage and more player. More DMs are the solution to all of ALFA's woes, heh.
;)
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