Warlocks

[HEEGZ]

For convenience, here is the last comment from Mikayla before locking the other thread. Will be a handy reference here IMO as this is the only active warlock thread that I am aware of.

So I finally got around to looking through my Complete Arcane and it answers some of the questions posed about Warlocks.

To begin with, the Warlock class opening “fluff” states the following:
“Born of a supernatural bloodline, a warlock seeks to master the perilous magic that suffuses his soul. ... By harnessing his innate magical gift through fearsome determination and force of will, a warlock can perform feats of supernatural stealth, beguile the weak minded, or scout his foes with blasts of eldritch power.”

The next section of text is where the now-infamous “pacts” are discussed, and that discussion is somewhat at odds with the opening paragraph.

The Background section undercuts suggestions of making Warlock a Prestige Class. It also undercuts any idea that Warlocks must serve a patron, or that a Warlock’s powers might be lost if he or she does not serve that patron. The Background sections states:
“Warlocks are born, not made. Some are the descendants of people who trafficked with demons and devils long ago. Some seek out the dark powers as youths, driven by ambition or the desire for power, but a few blameless individuals are simply marked out by the supernatural forces as conduits and tools. The exact nature of the a warlock’s origin is up to the player to decide; just as a sorcerer is not beholden to the magic-wielding ancestor that bequeathed his bloodline with arcane power, a warlock is not bound to follow the source that gifted him with magic.”

The Background section also notes that many warlocks are not created by evil powers at all, but by wild or fey forces.

So, in sum, my position as PA is that the Warlock class will be allowed, and I do not plan (at this time) to restrict its multi-classing ability. We do not currently keep fighters from taking a level of wizard or sorcerer just so they can use scrolls like Truestrike or See Invis, we do not restrict people from taking a level of Barbarian for the extra movement, we do not restrict people from taking a level or two of Ranger for the dual-wield, etc. If it gets abused, we will deal with it on an individual basis.

Having said that, I am considering the idea that if someone wants to play a Warlock, since Warlocks are born not made, that Warlock has to be their first class. Having now played a Warlock, a Paladin, Fighter and a Sorcerer through the low-levels of NWN2, I found the Warlock the hardest to survive with at those low levels (though the sorcerer was no joy-ride).

Anyway, that is where we stand as of right now. Thanks for the discussion.

- HEEGZ

[White Warlock]

Realistically, we can do what we want - the operative question being whether we want it. Monk and Pally have always been base classes historically, whereas Warlock was a moderately obscure expansion that happened to have a certain sort of appeal for OE.

To be fair, monks were not in D&D, were hokely added in AD&D 1st edition and considered by most to be 'optional,' were presented in slightly different fashion on Oriental Adventures (OA and OA modules were marked as 2nd edition, but they were actually 1st edition), then were removed from AD&D 2nd edition.

Anyway, reading that thread and some of the threads at WoTC, there seem to be a lot of material in the works that include warlocks. So, just like every new and popular item, warlocks are going to be retroactively fitted into the FR campaign history.

[Blackwill]

I think that in general, warlocks in FR would follow the same basic ideas as in any world. Some make pacts with demon, others have some sort of heritage-based link to the fey world, and others might derive their powers from another source. As alluded to in DoF, there is likely to be something related to warlocks and the Sildëyuir, though what, I cannot (yet) say. Along with Erik's reference, we can surmise that they are a minor, but real presence in the Realms. Beyond that, I think people can use (or not use) them however they desire. The existing references are vague enough to be used casually or considerably (or not at all).

And amazingly enough (and I honestly didn't know about this when I wrote this post, hence this added edit), this is my 333rd post. It also happens to be about warlocks. I wonder if there's a connection.

[Mulu]

I'll +1 Mik's sentiment about warlock survivability at low level. My *bard* was tougher.

[Ronan]

After the results of the poll, my plan was to re-do the Warlocks description in character creation and in the APM to show people how they fit into FR. In other words, list a few outsiders who can make such pacts, regions where warlocks would be more common (though we don't and probably won't have star elves, I suppose a half-elf from the Yuirwood could fit though), and how they would be viewed by other magic-users. The number of people who thought they didn't fit was far too high to do nothing, IMO.

I do still question if allowing such rare races and classes as planetouched and warlocks with no limits at all will be a good idea, but I guess we won't know till we try it.

[White Warlock]

I do still question if allowing such rare races and classes as planetouched and warlocks with no limits at all will be a good idea, but I guess we won't know till we try it.

Give me my due, or i'll newt you in two.

[Lusipher]

add Ice Dwarves

[Ronan]

Some of the Warlock's powers need some... adjusting. Such as Flee the Scene. I'd like it if someone could go through them all and document which powers deviate from PnP, and how. Any volunteers?

[ballonger]

Wizards of the Coast on Warlocks in Faerûn - Part 1

Now it's canon.

ps. I linked to this page in NWN2: Brainstorming as well.

EDIT: Rules for Warlocks in Faerûn seem to differ slightly from Core Rules' Warlocks. You're not necessarily born a Warlock, but can sign a pact from what it seems. I haven't read this whole thread. I just thought people should take a look at the page I linked.

[Mikayla]

Now we just need to allow Fey'ri and I can play a Fey'ri warlock..err...witch...whatever.

[Mayhem]

Vis Warlocks, the biggest abusable power I have heard of is Leaps and Bounds, as that +4 Dex mod is just tooo tempting.

In PNP it doesn't give that, it gives a bonus to balance, jump and tumble. 2 of those skills are, of course, not present in NWN.

Hence (presumably) the change to dex, but since we will likely be introducng those skills back into the game, why not simply change Leaps and Bounds to the PNP version?

[Stormseeker]

We could just give a +1 or 2 to dex and the same on the skills we do have.

[White Warlock]

if all things are made equal to PnP, it would be reasonable to make the changes according to how the Tabletop rules are designed. However, all things are not made equal. The never ending problem is that these 'non-NWN' skills have just not been applied 'enough' ingame with NWN1, and next to none of them are connected to scripted events/features. Make them part of ALFA, rather than a rare DMed action, and i would say that it is reasonable to switch it back to the PnP version. I just have my doubts, considering alfa's track record on these things.

[witch]

its only a really relevant power if ya are a rogue or sneak class besides being a warlock level or 2. For a pure warlock it aint that big a deal.
its an effective 2 AC and to hit for missiles.

Comparing the warlock to a cleric or wizard at higher levels.. those still win it in any fight. leaps and bounds aint gonna make that difference . Shouldnt make such a big deal out of it imho.

[yavanion]

Biggest isue with warlocks is the all party haste ability they get, lasts 60seconds, but since they can cast it as many times as they want, its just keep spamming it...