Level 1 Start - The Poll

[t-ice]

To pitch in with a point of my experience on what happened Exodus-side when the 3rd level starts were made :

Survivability isn't the main point at all. Then again, with virtually no sans-DM mob clearing at Exodus, I suppose Amn PCs tended to have much higher survivabilities even at lvl1 start. There's essentially one pro and one con to the starting level 3:

Pro :
Starting PCs are capable to actually contribute skills and combat-wise to a DM lead event from the start. Level3s are a benefit alongside level 4-8s, what the older hand PCs are. Level1s would be rather a liability and have to keep themselves at a distance in battle. Often the new PCs acted tough warriors to be taken along, when they actually played the rear chicken. The established PCs essentially ignored the cowardly behavior on OoC grounds and RPd on. Or then the lvl1s took the risk and relied on the -6hp stopgag.

The hardcore IC option would have been for most established PCs to either tell the freshbies to go home and come back when they got what it takes to stand by the grownups. Of course for some PCs it's IC to nurture and teach the beginners. But it'd royally suck for the player to be left out of a DM event because his PC didn't have enough xp. And to add insult to injury, to lose out on xp gain because of not participating.

Con :
Starting players loose the sense of achievement mechanics-wise for the PC's rapid initial growth in power. Note that story-wise nothing is lost, you can still play the "growing up to be strong and confident" story if you want, you just have the option to consider your PC relatively strong from the outset, too. You can always play less confident and skilled than your char sheet would indicate. But there's no denying the power of the sense of tangible on-engine achievement.

My bottom line:
Especially with a number of ALFAns rolling up lots of new Amn characters almost at the same time, I think the lvl3 start was and is an excellent way to avoid splittage of the player base to high-leves who do relevant server plot related stuff, and low-levels who play their sandbox if a DM wants to throw a bone.

[Veilan]

I'm not averse to compromise, and I've done my fair share of helping builders reduce instant-lethality. Such as equipping kobolds with slings rather than crossbows, keeping monsters off the main roads, not statically spawning anything CR 7 and above and so forth.

I just don't see much of a point in making a muddy compromise when we have both tastes catered to already. Some people like beans, others strawberries, blending them might probably not satisfy both, especially if there's one bowl of beans and one of strawberries available.

But please, consider and be aware that this is a fundamental issue to "old hares", and not simply a tinkering with pricing. The only reason it's not officially listed as a pillar anymore is because someone was afraid someone else would use "level 1 start" as an excuse to ban LA races. Compromise, in my eyes, would be something along the lines of the feat change I suggested, or a temporary hit point bump or something.

[NickD]

don't really see why those of us already past 'the hard part' NEED an extra 1k exp

Those of us already past 'the hard part' obviously didn't NEED an extra 1k exp at 1st level, either.

[jmecha]

Level 1 is Lame

[Regalis]

Your line of argumentation, Veilan, seems to presuppose there will be no attempt at further integration. Is this the official position?

[Veilan]

There's no official position as far as I'm aware.

However, my line of argumentation is valid in both cases, seeing how, with affairs as they are current, you could skirt ALFA's level 1 by simply starting in Exodus, then later be merged into it.

[Regalis]

If the desire is to bring the two communities together still, then it makes sense to try to find areas where compromises could be found. Rather than advise the communities to split up along ideological lines only to try to merge them together later. That would seem rash.

I'd also question how valid your line of argumentation is, in that instance, since it provides only a temporary mitigation from the issue rather than a true resolution.

[Blindhamsterman]

don't really see why those of us already past 'the hard part' NEED an extra 1k exp

Those of us already past 'the hard part' obviously didn't NEED an extra 1k exp at 1st level, either.

Touche

[oldgrayrogue]

My preference would be for a level 2 start. It allows for a more robust character concept and avoids the level 1 doldrems and meatgrinder and the OOC thinking that many find necessary to survive. It gets people out and enjoying more of the server content immediately and just makes for an all around more positive experience. Also when you consider that most new players reach level 2 very quickly I am not sure what we would really be losing by just starting at level 2.

That said, lots of players who voted don't like the idea. The community does indeed seem split, with the maybes apparently happy either way. As a compromise I like Mick's suggestion of doing away with the bleedout script for level 1-2 with a twist. To add an IC element to it, what about a script firing that has the creature that felled you take all of your gear. So you survive, but you are left close to death and with nothing. If you really like your concept and really want to RP consequences, you can continue on, heal from your wounds and rebuild your character from this near death experience. Heck maybe it spurs RP like a vendetta for the orcs that nearly took your life. If that is too much for you, you can always just retire the PC (he/she goes back to the farm deciding the adventuring life is insane) and start fresh.

[Dorn]

Level 1 is fine.

I've managed to get almost every character past level 1 in about 6 years of alfa. Lots of them in MUCH more hostile environments than the two servers we have at the moment.

I dont honestly understand why anyone living in europe or US where there are player/DM numbers should be up in arms about this. I dont mind and i'm in west australia.....there are more people on the moon at any one time than ALFA players in my timezone. It's RP game. RP for a while. Practice fighting. Learn to bind the handle of your axe,

I almost ALWAYs play fomr 6 ft 5 + barbarian from the north and find the difficulty of being a tough guy at level 1. But, at level 1...or level 2 (esp if everyone starts there) you're NOT a tough guy. Oh you are to the common folk in the realms, you kill a goblin everyone's impressed...except those already killing orcs,but hardened adventurers have seen your type come and go manya time. Only the smartest and/or strongest survive. Coming through the L1 scrapes amlsot dead and staggering back over the bridge to rivermoot is part of the learning curve a young brave needs to recognise his limitation outside the protection of teh tribe and realise he needs to rely on these peopel he formerly thought as weak citybloods hiding behind there walls etc etc blah blah

And in my opiniona nd experience there is just NO problem finding things to do in TSM.

BG....well i know sands swamped right now, but there is NOTHING to do except solo RP in BG at the moment iof noones on which is a shame. I'm sure when he's back that static content will improve.

Anyway, just my opinion.
+1 to NickD above as well hehe

Whatever happens do NOT start at 3. It's just becoming silly and lazy.

[Sandermann]

I cant even beleive this is a topic of discussion

[Rotku]

I cant even beleive this is a topic of discussion

People said the same thing about letting DMs play. Now that's an integrated part of ALFA.

[CloudDancing]

*waves happily from Exodus with 15 alfa people who are enjoying testing it immensely in practice*

[Magile]

edit: Had something to say -- don't care now.

[t-ice]

Should add that it's naturally a given that start levels will be made the same if we ever manage to open up a bridge between Amn and BG. What the start level is it not a "over my dead body" issue to Exodus, so it's certainly something we're willing to put on the table to compromise.