It doesn't matter what kind of character build you play in ALFA they are all Powergaming builds! I even heard that you are a powergamer if you play a cleric now.
All I hear about on this player world is people saying it's about RP and then bitching about how every class level, feat and skill point you purchase upon levelling up makes you a powergamer. You lot are completely obsessed about what and how much of it everyone else has. The only thing I don't see is an obsession with roleplay.
Three years too late I wander off and try out other player worlds right as NWN1 is in it's dying days and i've seen RP and fun that makes this community look prehistoric.
All ALFA has going for it truely is the awsomeness of what it builds and the scale at which it presents an online version of the forgotten realms.
It's downfall is the sheer objection to the D&D ruleset, how much fun you can have creating a powerful or versatile character to become a hero of legend, and the way in which everyone has to powergame like crazy just to make a character that can survive long enough to become involved in any roleplay.
Drop the fear, the rules of D&D are the rules of D&D. This is D&D, play it as it is, have fun, roleplay, stop watching everybody else and being paranoid. There is so much insecurity here. Who cares about able learner? It's just a feat. If you don't like it don't take it. If others want to, let them. Why do you care if it makes their character better then yours in some way? Sounds like a powergaming mentality to me.
Able learner revisited
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fluffmonster
- Haste Bear
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White Warlock
- Otyugh
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Blenderhead
- Shambling Zombie
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[off-topic] So, critisism is now bashing is it? With us or against us, eh, Mr Bush? [/off-topic]
[back to topic] I don't see a problem with this. ALFA, where seems to be more of a Single player MORPG rathern than PnP party based, a bit of extended talent in the non skill based classes may well be a good thing.
[back to topic] I don't see a problem with this. ALFA, where seems to be more of a Single player MORPG rathern than PnP party based, a bit of extended talent in the non skill based classes may well be a good thing.
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ElCadaver
- Rust Monster
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I think that if wizards of the coast OWN D&D, and they CHANGE D&D, then all who PLAY D&D should wipe all memory of previous incarnations of D&D and be allowed to use the rules as they now stand. rules lawyers ruin it for everyone. It's a level field for everyone, we can all make our own version of a power build if we want to. It's a game, have fun, be excellent to each other..
THOUGHT: maybe the able learner/rogue skills <benefit> is WOTC's statement about the moral decay of modern society, in that everyone these days is a thief and a crook, even paladins can have a go!
It may also mean that in the future, you are less likely to be backstabbed for some horrible amount of HP, as there are less pure rogues... Thats got to be an upside, doesn't it?
As a side thought, if I were to play evil characters, a rogue/blackguard with maxed out thiefy skills (save up your skill points), would be a really nice stealth character.. the bad guy wrestler of rogues... who drops a vrock on your ass just before he backstabs you from the shadows. Maybe a good character to put a vampire template on...ohhh.. tiefling rogue/blackguard vampire..darkness, outsiders.....scary....DM material there...I digress...work is boring today.
THOUGHT: maybe the able learner/rogue skills <benefit> is WOTC's statement about the moral decay of modern society, in that everyone these days is a thief and a crook, even paladins can have a go!
It may also mean that in the future, you are less likely to be backstabbed for some horrible amount of HP, as there are less pure rogues... Thats got to be an upside, doesn't it?
As a side thought, if I were to play evil characters, a rogue/blackguard with maxed out thiefy skills (save up your skill points), would be a really nice stealth character.. the bad guy wrestler of rogues... who drops a vrock on your ass just before he backstabs you from the shadows. Maybe a good character to put a vampire template on...ohhh.. tiefling rogue/blackguard vampire..darkness, outsiders.....scary....DM material there...I digress...work is boring today.
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Cynon
- Gelatinous Cube
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- Location: Croydon, London, England, UK, GMT - 0
I don't want to take this thread off topic by defending my thoughts and degenerating into a rant about more of what i've said above, but i still stand by what I said.
Able learner is just a feat, it's part of the D&D rules. If you know the rules and skills and such that a character can pick depending on class, you can spend hours and hours messing around in level up mods levelling and unlevelling, multiclassing, trying to get the best possible builds and most efficient mixes of stats and class levels and race pick to mix it all up in.
It doesn't matter what ALFA decides it wants to adopt from the D&D rules or modify/reject depending on the character building preferences of the louder few in the community.
When I start to mess about with able learner I suddenly see less need for multiclassing on builds and taking levels in certain classes to maximise a PC. I see the ability now to play a pure class. Pick a class at creation and level up as only that class without taking bits and bobs of other stuff just to make my character have skills available that would have been too expensive to focus in as just the original class.
In ALFA most people seemed to have learned to make characters that were multiclassed to 3 classes, just so you have a broad range of skills and abilities to be able to handle all those lonely hours walking servers alone without a party of mixed abilities. People wanted to be able to survive.
NWN2, from what I hear, is by design making it hard for that sort of solo style play. You are all thinking people will want to take a single level of e.g. rogue with their X level of fighter, just so they can maximise on their rogish skills without playing a pure rogue. I think a lot of you still haven't got your heads out of the, empty ALFA server, people wandering around for hours building a PC for this style of play, mentality.
We will be playing ALFA at the beggining of a new era of a new game. The players should be in abundance. If we have organised factions and player groups, if we have decent DM coverage and an amount of static content to keep low level players without DM's busy then we will have a busstling community with people building PC's to compliment their friends.
You'll have people playing pure wizards and pure rogues and pure barbarians for a change. They know their character is gonna have the potential of years ahead of them rather then the closing months of NWN1, they'll know that weaknesses and holes in their characters abilities won't matter so much if they have other people to party with that have the skills they don't. Able learner is a feat created by WotC for such playstyle. It allows a simple character with no powergaming drive to focus in different skills than those which are standard for their class. It's at the cost of a feat. A heavy cost but if you want your fighter to be a high dex build and be able to stealth around in light armour, it's more worth building now. You don't have to multiclass as a rogue anymore. You can just play a fighter.
There are many advantages of this.
Think of pirates. You want to play a pirate. But you want to be a really tough fighter pirate, not a rogue, not a barbarian but a feat heavy skilled pirate. You take all fighter levels and you take able learner. you wear shark hide armour and throw all your skill points in stealthy, swimming, and negotiating skills. That way you can sneak around in ports and talk your way out of anything. You can also use your feats up on things like weapon finesse and go weapon specialisation, power attack, cleave, improved cleave, expertise etc etc and such on rapier like only a fighter can. You could not build such a character before without multiclassing.
All this feat does is broaden the horisons of what you can make as a character. D&D rules have been going that way forever. Think back to when humans would take a second class and loose the ability to level up in their old class anymore. Elves had to pick a multiclass at startup and then level evenly in those two/three classes. The weapons you could use were limited by your classes too.
Like I said before, you can play by the D&D rules or you can unbalance them for the individuals vision of ALFA but people will just build their character accordingly.
Customising NWN2 for ALFA is fine but customising D&D 3.5 ruleset for ALFA is powergaming I don't care what anyone says.
Able learner is just a feat, it's part of the D&D rules. If you know the rules and skills and such that a character can pick depending on class, you can spend hours and hours messing around in level up mods levelling and unlevelling, multiclassing, trying to get the best possible builds and most efficient mixes of stats and class levels and race pick to mix it all up in.
It doesn't matter what ALFA decides it wants to adopt from the D&D rules or modify/reject depending on the character building preferences of the louder few in the community.
When I start to mess about with able learner I suddenly see less need for multiclassing on builds and taking levels in certain classes to maximise a PC. I see the ability now to play a pure class. Pick a class at creation and level up as only that class without taking bits and bobs of other stuff just to make my character have skills available that would have been too expensive to focus in as just the original class.
In ALFA most people seemed to have learned to make characters that were multiclassed to 3 classes, just so you have a broad range of skills and abilities to be able to handle all those lonely hours walking servers alone without a party of mixed abilities. People wanted to be able to survive.
NWN2, from what I hear, is by design making it hard for that sort of solo style play. You are all thinking people will want to take a single level of e.g. rogue with their X level of fighter, just so they can maximise on their rogish skills without playing a pure rogue. I think a lot of you still haven't got your heads out of the, empty ALFA server, people wandering around for hours building a PC for this style of play, mentality.
We will be playing ALFA at the beggining of a new era of a new game. The players should be in abundance. If we have organised factions and player groups, if we have decent DM coverage and an amount of static content to keep low level players without DM's busy then we will have a busstling community with people building PC's to compliment their friends.
You'll have people playing pure wizards and pure rogues and pure barbarians for a change. They know their character is gonna have the potential of years ahead of them rather then the closing months of NWN1, they'll know that weaknesses and holes in their characters abilities won't matter so much if they have other people to party with that have the skills they don't. Able learner is a feat created by WotC for such playstyle. It allows a simple character with no powergaming drive to focus in different skills than those which are standard for their class. It's at the cost of a feat. A heavy cost but if you want your fighter to be a high dex build and be able to stealth around in light armour, it's more worth building now. You don't have to multiclass as a rogue anymore. You can just play a fighter.
There are many advantages of this.
Think of pirates. You want to play a pirate. But you want to be a really tough fighter pirate, not a rogue, not a barbarian but a feat heavy skilled pirate. You take all fighter levels and you take able learner. you wear shark hide armour and throw all your skill points in stealthy, swimming, and negotiating skills. That way you can sneak around in ports and talk your way out of anything. You can also use your feats up on things like weapon finesse and go weapon specialisation, power attack, cleave, improved cleave, expertise etc etc and such on rapier like only a fighter can. You could not build such a character before without multiclassing.
All this feat does is broaden the horisons of what you can make as a character. D&D rules have been going that way forever. Think back to when humans would take a second class and loose the ability to level up in their old class anymore. Elves had to pick a multiclass at startup and then level evenly in those two/three classes. The weapons you could use were limited by your classes too.
Like I said before, you can play by the D&D rules or you can unbalance them for the individuals vision of ALFA but people will just build their character accordingly.
Customising NWN2 for ALFA is fine but customising D&D 3.5 ruleset for ALFA is powergaming I don't care what anyone says.
If honour is truth and a lie is respect, then a secret is sacred.
Confide in me my friend and I shall love you like no other.
Confide in me my friend and I shall love you like no other.