PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Ideas and suggestions for game mechanics and rules.
SwordSaintMusashi
Mook
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:49 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by SwordSaintMusashi »

No improvement of class features (so yes, familiar or turning/domain power in the case of a cleric) and it requires prereqs. Just like every other PrC out there. You don't just "decide" to take a PrC in ALFA or go "Why not". Its alot of extra effort on top of anything else you're doing, and you have to meet the prerequisites mechanically and to the requirements a DM would hold for you. Its no easy task to aquire one of these.

However, it is no more powerful than Loremaster (a 10 level PrC with GREAT perks and spellcasting), Mystic Theurge (/2/ class progression), and Arcane Scholar of Candlekeep (also full progression, which is also one of the most amazing PrCs outside of Incantrix I have ever seen).

Its an option for wizards that dedicate themselves to the pretty lofty ideals of Silverymoon and manage to maintain them to a DM's eye, like any PrC. So yes :P Its not just "something you pick up".
Current PCs:
Zova Earth Breaker, Monk of Rasheman
Alyra Ashedown, Knight Commander of Silverymoon
User avatar
Brokenbone
Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
Posts: 5771
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 1:07 am
Location: London, Ontario, Canada

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by Brokenbone »

I was thinking "something you pick up" if it were of general application, not just tied to Silverymoon... like that Knight Errant / Knight Protector / whatever reminder you mentioned about making certain PrCs a little less regional / specific. Not just for Bladereach ;)

Still, if something evolves that doesn't actually resemble the canonical spellguard, it may get a different name (Enlisted Rune-Jockey?), just to set it apart.

Aside from PrC stuff, some kind DM could at some point let NES Champion know if things like mythal attunement and the long sidebar in PgtF are understood... get tied to a freakin' artifact and you get the command word abilities to do all kinds of little police-appropriate tricks... ANYONE can get that done for 2500xp and the right paperwork (approved by either Azuth, Mystra, or city ruler, right)? It's just that Spellguard PrC dudes get it for free.
ALFA NWN2 PCs: Rhaggot of the Bruised-Eye, and Bamshogbo
ALFA NWN1 PC: Jacobim Foxmantle
ALFA NWN1 Dead PC: Jon Shieldjack

DMA Staff
SwordSaintMusashi
Mook
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:49 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by SwordSaintMusashi »

Well, that can be discussed by the standards guys. For the brainstorming, I'm only interested in making sure the abilities work. Which I'll know as of this weekend, if all goes as planned. And BHM (who I think is our unofficial PrC guy at this point) made some very good observations I'm going to work into the official proposal.

As for making it wide spread, I don't see a need to. There is more than enough PrCs to fit the Wizard niche (one is even BG specific). I see no reason not to have a TSM specific one too.

Any other comments on the ability progression?
Current PCs:
Zova Earth Breaker, Monk of Rasheman
Alyra Ashedown, Knight Commander of Silverymoon
User avatar
Brokenbone
Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
Posts: 5771
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 1:07 am
Location: London, Ontario, Canada

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by Brokenbone »

I guess the overall comment is along the lines of "is this meant to resemble the PnP Spellguard or not", it changes a lot of the thinking, from prereqs to abilities earned.

Example, original post talks d8 hd, there's some fussing about d6 hd, both of which are higher than the good old d4 hd.

Similar example, the prereqs in OP are Arcane 3 spells available, prereqs of the PnP SG is Arcane 4 spells available. That represents waiting a couple levels! Or what feats are required, Combat Casting is a must for SG in PnP, etc. etc.

However, as to the listed by level powers, I guess I'm seeing:

(1) A level of token attunement way less powerful than the "any of a long list of instant infinite uses of useful powers"... presumably it's just that certain kinds of magic won't get squelched by the mythal. Fire, summons, whatever. Call it "Lesser Attunement" or something else if it's the intention.

(1) Also gets a bonus feat up front, but nothing at (2), which is where "PnP SGs" would have had to wait until.

(2) gets nothing, like I said. What a drag.

(3) for the SR bubble thing, it seems a little much, it'd start at 13%, right (i.e., 10 + this is your 3rd PrC level it kicks in at)? Maybe have it as a Silverymoon only power or "full strength in SM, half strength out in the woods", if for some reason spell resistance is seen as desirable. Could also be personal effect only "in the woods" and the little bubble thing in town. I guess I'm just feeling unease about this one, Spell Resistance is a very short duration, single target, 5th level spell... having it "always on, for a gang", feels a little nutty. Drow get it personal only and have the +ECL, I can't think of any moving aura like things resembling this anywhere else. May not be thinking hard enough though.

(4) Bonus feat you're suggesting at (1) and (4), hey, this matches the PnP list. PnP they'd also get the power called Spellguard, to be able to bestow "personal only" area spells to others. So essentially there's no difference here.

(5) Potent Spellcasting - - the PnP power of ALWAYS +1 CL is pretty decent, I don't quite know how you'd code that. Make up some weird feat that does some across the board Spell Focus type effect? A brief "next 3 rounds of spells are going to kick ass" 1/d power is I guess a little more focussed than that. Excellent for "the boss fight" or CvC I suppose... if you time it right. Color me ambivalent, but I guess I can say that thematically, there's somewhat of a match. "Better spells all the time vs. a small daily period of very good spells" is what this one seems about.

Anyhow it's just from the hip thoughts, not precisely "standardsy", just trying to think if there's Spellguard "like" powers to borrow from other classes, feats, whatever. Still, at the core of the SG PnP class is the very scary full attunement w/ a Mythal, what PnP DM is going to have a campaign fully limited to Silverymoon with a PC who can cast a different ability every round of every day? Drop 'em into another plane and see how they fare without a Bull's Strength every 2 minutes while doing yardwork.
ALFA NWN2 PCs: Rhaggot of the Bruised-Eye, and Bamshogbo
ALFA NWN1 PC: Jacobim Foxmantle
ALFA NWN1 Dead PC: Jon Shieldjack

DMA Staff
SwordSaintMusashi
Mook
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:49 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by SwordSaintMusashi »

As stated as well, it is meant to keep the flavor and theme, but work in our online environment. Which I, and many others, feel the same. So I'm not looking to replace things, I'm looking to make sure the things presented would work. As BHM pointed out, the hit dice is fluctuating between d4 and d6. I'd err on the side of d4 personally, but that is the kind of opinion I'm looking for.

The rest of the abilities are hardcoded in the PrC that already exists and I'm looking to just alter to fit our community.

And as far as the SR goes: When fighting an opponent of equal level at the level you get SR (SR 13), you are level 8. A spellcaster of equal level has to roll a /5/ on their Caster Level check to bypass your spell resistance. And if you play NWN2, you know the aura 10 is almost meaningless. No one stays within that small bubble.

In addition, the SR caps. So eventually, people won't even need to roll against you.
Current PCs:
Zova Earth Breaker, Monk of Rasheman
Alyra Ashedown, Knight Commander of Silverymoon
SwordSaintMusashi
Mook
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:49 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by SwordSaintMusashi »

Changing the gears of this discussion. I've been informed it might be possible to put together the true Spellguard PrC. In such a case, can continue this thread as a way to implement NWN9 Magus, or can drop it.
Current PCs:
Zova Earth Breaker, Monk of Rasheman
Alyra Ashedown, Knight Commander of Silverymoon
User avatar
Blindhamsterman
Haste Bear
Posts: 2396
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:13 am
Location: GMT

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by Blindhamsterman »

if someone is willing to code the actual spellguard prc (I assume Zelknolf?) Then I'd suggest dropping nwn9 magus, purely because we have a lot of wizard-type PRCs already.
Standards Member


Current PC: Elenaril Avae'Kerym of the Lynx Lodge
<Heero>: yeah for every pc ronan has killed dming, paazin has killed 2 with his spawns
User avatar
NESchampion
Staff Head - Documentation
Posts: 884
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:46 am

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by NESchampion »

Old thread, but bumping it back up as I know there is another PC currently considering joining the Spellguard in the future. I would also have no issue with making use of the existing non-canon PrC Arcane Scholar as an option as well, a solution which would require no coding and just a bit of releveling.

For reference:

http://www.alandfaraway.org/node/1669

Requirements:
Skills: Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Empower Spell, Skill Focus (Concentration), Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
Spellcasting: Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.

Class Features:
Hit die: d4
Proficiencies: None
Skill points: 2 + Int modifier
Class skills: Appraise, Concentration, Craft Alchemy, Craft Armor, Diplomacy, Lore, Search, Spellcraft
Base attack bonus progression: Low
Saving throws high: Will
low: Fortitude, Reflex

Spells Per Day/Spells Known: When a new Arcane Scholar level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as though he had gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class gave him access to 3rd-level arcane spells. If the character has more than one applicable arcane spellcasting class, he must pick one to improve.

Maximize Spell: At 1st level, the Arcane Scholar gets the Maximize Spell feat.

Spell Knowledge: At 2nd Level, the Arcane Scholar and any party members gain a +1 bonus to their saves versus spells. This bonus increases to +2 at 8th level.

Improved Empower Spell: At 3rd level, the Arcane Scholar becomes especially adept at empowering spells. Empowered spells now only use a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.

Quicken Spell: At 5th level, the Arcane Scholar gets the Quicken Spell feat.

Improved Maximize Spell: At 7th level, the Arcane Scholar becomes especially adept at maximizing spells. Maximized spells now only use up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.

Improved Quicken Spell: At 10th level, the Arcane Scholar becomes especially adept at quickening spells. Quickened spells now only use up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell's actual level.
Current PC: Olaf - The Silver Marches
User avatar
Blindhamsterman
Haste Bear
Posts: 2396
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:13 am
Location: GMT

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by Blindhamsterman »

I've heard techy folk say Spellguard would be horrible to make a few times. I'd totally support making the Arcane Scholar be used for Spellguard and giving NES relevelling to fit it.

It'd be lovely to get the actual Spellguard PRC though.
Standards Member


Current PC: Elenaril Avae'Kerym of the Lynx Lodge
<Heero>: yeah for every pc ronan has killed dming, paazin has killed 2 with his spawns
User avatar
viigas
Dungeon Master
Posts: 782
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:58 am
Location: gmt+1

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by viigas »

Blindhamsterman wrote:...... I'd totally support making the Arcane Scholar be used for Spellguard and giving NES relevelling to fit it.

It'd be lovely to get the actual Spellguard PRC though.
+ 1
DM viigas (TSM)
Retired toon: Faenor Bital
-----------------------------------------------------
when online: GMT thursday 2130-0230 + when RL allow me
-----------------------------------------------------
granite stonejaw:
- damn, I didnt mean to drink
User avatar
Ithildur
Dungeon Master
Posts: 3548
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:46 am
Location: Best pizza town in the universe
Contact:

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by Ithildur »

I don't see where this was posted, unless I missed it SSM. What saves and BAB progression are featured for the NW9 Magus?
Formerly: Aglaril Shaelara, Faerun's unlikeliest Bladesinger
Current main: Ky - something

It’s not the critic who counts...The credit belongs to the man who actually is in the arena, who strives violently, who errs and comes up short again and again...who if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement, but who if he fails, fails while daring greatly.-T. Roosevelt
t-ice
Dungeon Master
Posts: 2106
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:24 pm

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by t-ice »

Blindhamsterman wrote: It'd be lovely to get the actual Spellguard PRC though.
Considering the flavor of the Arcane Scholar (a nwn2-specific class as I recall) is the same as that of the SpellGuards described above, only on a quick glance better balanced for full caster progression, this seems to be a matter of renaming the Arcane Scholar PrC?

What effects Spellguards get inside the city is pretty much DM-only, anyway.
User avatar
kid
Dungeon Master
Posts: 2675
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:08 am

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by kid »

this seems like a cool PrC and good fit for Spellguard.
renaming sounds good enough to me tho...

does that mean non Spellguard cant take the Arcane Scholar PrC?
might seem unfair to some.

either way stat wise it seems to fit Spellguard well.
im for it.
<paazin>: internet relationships are really a great idea
User avatar
NESchampion
Staff Head - Documentation
Posts: 884
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:46 am

Re: PrC: Neverwinter Nine Magus (Spellguard)

Post by NESchampion »

Not sure that renaming the Arcane Scholar is necessary as a lot of other characters could make use of the class too as it stands; I talked with Curm a bit about Spellguard characters generally and the premise of a more mobile or active sort of Spellguard. Whether this comes back to the Arcane Scholar or not remains to be thought of, but at least it's something to throw around. :D
Current PC: Olaf - The Silver Marches
Locked