Prices

Ronan · Post by **Ronan** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:27 pm

Mulu wrote:
Ronan wrote:I'm not quite sure why ALFA has 6gp meals now, thats extremely silly IMO.
Well, if a magic sword costs 2400 gp... it's a function of the economy. Every item you may want to purchase is a money sink.

And because ALFA is designed as a money sink, I really don't see any of this changing, so don't get too worked up about it.

Toril's economy is not so balanced. Magic is extremely expensive, and only the wealthiest people can afford it. The FRCS has a good section on coinage, wages, and money values. We NEED to decide wether or not we will be following canon in this regard, as I'm sick of money being treated differently on different servers.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:09 pm

Ronan wrote:Magic is extremely expensive, and only the wealthiest people can afford it.

And yet it's canon that magic shops exist and are even fairly plentiful.

More importantly, PC's are like rock stars, they exist outside the normal economy of peasants and farmers.

Ronan · Post by **Ronan** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:46 pm

Mulu wrote:
Ronan wrote:Magic is extremely expensive, and only the wealthiest people can afford it.
And yet it's canon that magic shops exist and are even fairly plentiful.

Well, if you read the section on magic in Faerun in the FRCS, you'll see that the sort of magic adventurers are used to is not commonly sold very many places at all. Some cities like Waterdeep can cater to adventurers (Undermountain brings them in in larger numbers), but most places don't. Magic is rare, everyone wants it, so naturally the common folk don't get to have it. The result is only the risk-takers and the rich can afford to own significant magic and, and as you said, the risk-takers (PCs) are like rock-stars.

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:26 pm

Mulu wrote:
Ronan wrote:Magic is extremely expensive, and only the wealthiest people can afford it.
And yet it's canon that magic shops exist and are even fairly plentiful.

Actually, not really. Outside of Calimport, Waterdeep, Thayan Enclaves, Silverymoon, and a few other scattered places, magic beyond real simple things (self-sweeping brooms, self-heating kettles, etc) is not for sale.

fluffmonster · Post by **fluffmonster** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:47 pm

assume that permanently enchanted items will not be available for sale in NWN2 static merchants. Through a DM, mebbe...anything is possible with a DM.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:50 pm

Grand Fromage wrote:Actually, not really. Outside of Calimport, Waterdeep, Thayan Enclaves, Silverymoon, and a few other scattered places, magic beyond real simple things (self-sweeping brooms, self-heating kettles, etc) is not for sale.

I would call that plentiful.

I see magic shops like Ferrari dealerships. Sure, most places can't support one, but if you want a Ferrari, you can find a place to buy one.

Rotku · Post by **Rotku** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:04 pm

Mulu wrote:
Ronan wrote:Magic is extremely expensive, and only the wealthiest people can afford it.
And yet it's canon that magic shops exist and are even fairly plentiful.

More importantly, PC's are like rock stars, they exist outside the normal economy of peasants and farmers.

Like Rockstars? Can't say I'd agree with that. If it was rephrased to 'Successful Adventuring PCs are like Successful Rockstars' then I might agree.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:11 am

Rotku wrote:Like Rockstars? Can't say I'd agree with that. If it was rephrased to 'Successful Adventuring PCs are like Successful Rockstars' then I might agree.

Well, rockstars, hopefulls and wannabe's.

AlmightyTDawg · Post by **AlmightyTDawg** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:40 pm

Personally I think going to the sub-gold level is kind of micromanaging past 4th level or so, but... any though to using "Unique Power" and charges to simulate the effect, at least for acquired items and not services? For example, you can get as low as 2cp increments.

This could kind of work in two ways - buy a 4cp meal for 1gp and 25 charges would be the easiest. It works best when there's freely available persistant storage by which to store these things and you can just RP the purchase and tick off the charge later. Not worth getting terribly upset over people maybe not ticking off the right amount because, let's face it, it's copper coins.

The other way might be a "50 copper coins" item - say like a gem merchant type of function where you pay 1gp and get two of them out. Have four charge options to subtract 1 (1 charge), 5 (2 charges), 10 (3 charges), or 25 (4 charges) - which works if the script can then subtract the "balance" of charges by use.

In either case, it gives people the option to handle it if they want to, or just handwave it, depending on their style of play. Personally, for the few times it comes up in game I'll pay the 1 gp and move on.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:05 am

Well, we could lower wealth standards and reprice everything. So that a +1 sword (sorry, magic sword) costs 100 gp, but good luck getting that much when most quests or sellable items only net a couple of coppers.

I mean, you can do anything you want with this game. That's the whole point of D&D. Of course it means coming up with a pricing system from scratch. The effort may not be worth the immersion value.

AlmightyTDawg · Post by **AlmightyTDawg** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:20 am

As for general pricing, it'll be built into the base mod equipment list as best we can. We're still waiting for some concept of the Bioware scheme for pricing and whether they will allow "negative" modifiers to be placed for the cases where they overprice things.

That said, the pricing came along with the Wealth Standards and is nominally a best effort stab at book pricing. It includes expansive approaches to things like pricing 1d4 damage, or how 1d6 fire in NWN is "+1.5 effective" since the NWN implementation (multiply on crit) is partway between flaming and flaming burst, or how divine or magical damage on swords is worth more.

Don't expect it to be retrofit to NWN1 except on a case-by-case basis. We've even got tools for DMs to price items (well, at least in beta cause I'm lazy), but we still have no FTP for it so few know about it.

The problem of Bioware pricing should get fixed for NWN2 when we have a clean slate, good information, and good testing. The problem of sub-gold values can either be handwaved or handled by abstractions like above, but it will probably largely be voluntary since you don't want to get into the micromanagement of enforcing it.

Dorn · Post by **Dorn** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:35 am

JspecWip wrote:The current system punishes people for being IC and holding to Immersion. Boots, cloaks, food, packs, all the rp kinda stuff kills your budget.

On the contrary this stuff should be mandatory.

Without boots the DM can do damage to you for running and tearing your feet.

Without a belt he/she can cast slow on you when you're fleeing as your pants slip around your ankles.

Without a backpack he/she can take things out of your inventory and drop them along the road...you cant hold that much stuff in your hands. With 20 backpacks they could cast slow or something as carrying 20 backpacks would make it hard to fight.

Without cloacks your scrolls could get ruined as nothing is protecting them from the water.

Ok the above isn't always done...but i like it when DMs do so.

I LIKE that these things eat aup about 100 of the starting 300 gold. Otherwise you begin with fine longswords, good metal armour etc. And at level 1 you are NOT a rockstar. You are a lowly woodsman, a young man in the militia for 6 months who got some basic training and is setting off. The lowest acolyte of a faith yet to prove yourself to the church, a street cutpurse covered in grime etc

JspecWip · Post by **JspecWip** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:32 am

[quote="Dorn at level 1 you are NOT a rockstar.[/quote]

Thats not really true, class levels are rather exclusive and having said class level elevates you above the norm. Most of the Npc's you meet would be commoner 1, and the guards and what not would be warrior 1 with a sprinkling of fighters of various levels making up the officer/champions of a force.

This brings up a whole other topic though, so if you want to make a post about how ALFA 2's representation of Faerun is going to be set feel free to do so.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:33 am

JspecWip wrote: Most of the Npc's you meet would be commoner 1...

Hah. Most ALFA NPCs have about 15 class levels. Makes those faction errors really interesting.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:40 am

Dorn wrote:
JspecWip wrote:The current system punishes people for being IC and holding to Immersion. Boots, cloaks, food, packs, all the rp kinda stuff kills your budget.
Without a backpack he/she can take things out of your inventory and drop them along the road...

Indeed, all those inventary slots *without* carrying equipment are a bit silly. All these items magically adhering to your body.

But since NWN2 is going to a "pouches" system, allegedly, which will be much better.

***

On the other hand, if DMs are going to start enforcing RP carrying limits, they need to take that into account in their adventures.

If you cane somebody for not carrying enough healing potions, for example, but then cane them for carrying too much when they *are* carrying enough potions...