Illusion Spells: Shadow Conjuration / Evocation

[NESchampion]

I'd like to suggest changing Shadow Conjuration to fit more in line with the PnP spell, along with possibly adding in Shadow Evocation at 5th level as a replacement for the brokenness that is Glass Doppelganger. I'll split the two up below for consideration.

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Shadow Conjuration (D20)

You use material from the Plane of Shadow to shape quasi-real illusions of one or more creatures, objects, or forces. Shadow conjuration can mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 3rd level or lower.

Shadow conjurations are actually one-fifth (20%) as strong as the real things, though creatures who believe the shadow conjurations to be real are affected by them at full strength.

Any creature that interacts with the conjured object, force, or creature can make a Will save to recognize its true nature.

Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless the affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth (20%) damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is only 20% likely to occur. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow conjuration’s level (4th) rather than the spell’s normal level. In addition, any effect created by shadow conjuration allows spell resistance, even if the spell it is simulating does not. Shadow objects or substances have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them.

Against disbelievers, they are 20% likely to work.

A shadow creature has one-fifth the hit points of a normal creature of its kind (regardless of whether it’s recognized as shadowy). It deals normal damage and has all normal abilities and weaknesses. Against a creature that recognizes it as a shadow creature, however, the shadow creature’s damage is one-fifth (20%) normal, and all special abilities that do not deal lethal damage are only 20% likely to work. (Roll for each use and each affected character separately.) Furthermore, the shadow creature’s AC bonuses are one-fifth as large.

A creature that succeeds on its save sees the shadow conjurations as transparent images superimposed on vague, shadowy forms.

Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell.

Shadow Conjuration (NWN2)

You conjure a shadow variant of one of the following spells: darkness, invisibility, mage armor, magic missile, or summon shadow.

The D20 version is more broad based but has more drawbacks. In order to change the NWN2 version to be more in-line with PnP, I'd like to suggest replacing the spells available as follows:

Stinking Cloud
Mestil's Acid Breath
Flame Arrow
Grease
Lesser Orb of Lightning

This particular layout is a spread of conjurations including two non-damaging spells, one aoe damaging spell, and two single target damage spells of different types (acid and lightning). Additionally I'd like to implement the Will Save vs. disbelief for all the shadow versions of these spells, where disbelief mitigates the effects and damage by 20%; for this reason spells like Improved Mage Armor and Summon Creature would be difficult to implement (though if someone has a working solution that is straightforward to code I'm all ears).

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Shadow Evocation (D20)

You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to cast a quasi-real, illusory version of a sorcerer or wizard evocation spell of 4th level or lower. (For a spell with more than one level, use the best one applicable to you.)

Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless an affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. If recognized as a shadow evocation, a damaging spell deals only one-fifth (20%) damage. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow evocation’s level (5th) rather than the spell’s normal level.

Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.

Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell.

Modeled after the 5 spell drop down on Shadow Conjuration, I would suggest the following spells for Shadow Evocation:

Ice Storm
Wall of Fire
Lightning Bolt
Darkness
Magic Missile

This selection includes two 4th level spells, and one spell for levels 1-3 and spans a variety of damage types. That said, I'm not certain how to handle Darkness; this article suggests that...

Remember that effects that do not do damage, such as obscuring mist, mount, or unseen servant, can be replicated by this spell. It's extremely unlikely that these types of spells will even be the subject of a Will save to disbelieve them.

However, if we want to go with something more straightforward a spell like Cloud of Bewilderment or Gedlee's Electric Loop could just as easily replace Darkness in the list.

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Thoughts? I'm willing to work on coding up the spells myself if needed, but bringing them somewhat more in order with PnP and giving a replacement for Glass Doppleganger would be solid improvements over the mish mash currently.

EDIT: Replaced Acid Arrow in shadow conjuration with Flame Arrow, as greater shadow conjuration uses acid arrow already and doubling up seems a waste.

[hollyfant]

Considering how you effectively cant play a proper illusionist in NWN2 as things are, it does seem a good idea.

[NESchampion]

As I'm working on this I think I will probably add Greater Shadow Conjuration to my todo list, and replace the spells with:

Black Tentacles
Orb of Sound
Arc of Lightning
Vitriolic Sphere
Acid Fog

Gives 2 level 4 spells, 2 level 5 spells, and 1 level 6 spell; two are AOE creation effect, two are multi-target damage, and one is single target damage. Type of damage spreads from acid, lightning, sonic, and physical.

[Zelknolf]

Kudos if you can get shadow conjured black tentacles to work, but are you sure? There's some added complexity in handling Shadow Conjuration with things that last-- (i.e. when do we apply spell resistance, seeing as "every effect" gets it when produced by the spell; how do we resolve disbelief over a prolonged interaction; can we simulate the instant re-check from a pal shouting "It's an illusion [pals re-save at +4]") -- and I seem to remember these problems being what kept you from writing Shadow Conjuration with Summon Creature.

[NESchampion]

Kudos if you can get shadow conjured black tentacles to work, but are you sure? There's some added complexity in handling Shadow Conjuration with things that last-- (i.e. when do we apply spell resistance, seeing as "every effect" gets it when produced by the spell;

Before any save checks each round because it doesn't rely on the creature being aware of the spell or illusion. For example, Grease checks for spell resistance and disbelief before making any save rolls, then makes a save roll vs. disbelief, then makes a save roll vs. reflex as normal. If at any time during the spell the creature makes the will save to disbelieve they remain unaffected by the spell for its duration.

how do we resolve disbelief over a prolonged interaction

Disbelief once lasts for the entire duration of the spell.

can we simulate the instant re-check from a pal shouting "It's an illusion [pals re-save at +4]")

Probably not, but presently the Shadow spells make no disbelief check whatsoever so the change to even allow for disbelief is a step in the right direction in terms of balance and following the original spell.

-- and I seem to remember these problems being what kept you from writing Shadow Conjuration with Summon Creature.

The issue with Summon Creature is how to create it with reduced HP in general but only reduced Damage for people who disbelieve.

[Zelknolf]

Righto, then-- as long as you're confident. Not meant to be a challenge or anything; I just want to make sure that work started is started with an understanding of the task to tackle and with the backup needed.

[Ronan]

Yeah we talked about and sorted this stuff earlier this or last week. It was the source of my double-checking that OBJECT_SELF was the AoE object on AoE scripts.

[Zelknolf]

Suddenly, previous conversations make more sense.

[NESchampion]

Correct; each AOE effect keeps a unique identifier per target as to whether it disbelieves that particular AOE or not, and it persists even if they leave the AOE area and run back in. I just got done testing the inclusion that the caster automatically disbelieves illusions they created (by using GetAreaofEffectCreator).

[ElCadaver]

All I know is Shadow conjuration magic missile looks awesome.