New player input

[Dorn]

A player (call them 'Anon') on TSM asked me to input this (in a nutshell).

From playing here a little while they had this to say.

ALFA doesn't need more servers it needs more content in the server we have. Otherwise people will leave unlike the stubborn ones like me.

My first char was a mage. There are actually very few active players around and if they DID help it was only for a short time. Even with help you are stuck waiting for this help for weeks as you char is too weak to do anything without help.

I have yet to see a DM.

[Dorn]

My response:

ALFA doesn't need more servers it needs more content in the server we have. Otherwise people will leave unlike the stubborn ones like me.

I couldn't agree more. We saw what happened in ALFA1 when you had too many servers and not enough players/DMs. We already do not have enough players DMs in ALFA2 yet we are already looking at expanding 3-4 fold (in addition to maintaining some of our previous player/DM base in ALFA1 that prob multiplies this to a 8 fold division of people). I think the notion that 'peopoe can do what they want' is all well and good but does not show much foresight or strategy by the 'community'. This is the problem with a community approach instead of a few people takeing the lead and 'ruling'.

I really dont want to sound like i'm dissing people who are working on new servers, their commitment is awesome, i just dont believe it's a good plan for ALFA2. And i know the TSM lads are working there rings off and it's hugely appreicated. They're fullfilling thri prmise of taking a 'good enough' server to a great one.

My first char was a mage. There are actually very few active players around and if they DID help it was only for a short time. Even with help you are stuck waiting for this help for weeks as you char is too weak to do anything without help.

The thing i raised above will eat into this. As players find there are no DMs and no players about to help them they will drift away meaning we will not build numbers. Advertising and 'PR' is useless without implementation. It's like recruitment without retention.

Without enough static content on board to help players through these times then we are not being fair. We always say 'ALFA's not about statics it's about DMs and PLayers' but then we do not deliver on the DMs and PLayers because we split the playerbase/DM base so widely and spend our tech/building resources on continually new stuff rather then filling out what we've got and freeing up DMs to story DM.

WHat's to be done to make sure people have fun while they're waiting?

I know people will say 'builders build where they want'. Well that's all well and dandy but it's a craphouse reason to impact on ALFAs longevity i think.

I have yet to see a DM.

This is not the fault of the current DM staff at all. It's just a fact ofr supply vs demand. But i think there are some people who will end up DMing and it doesnt matter where (and yes yes there will be some that ONLY dm if they can build a new server there). But i think that when these precious other have the choice of 4-5 servers with part filled DM cores to chooose from.... i doubt we'll ever satisfactorially fill the DM ranks on any.


Again, i'm not trying to diss anyone as most are putting a hell of a lot into ALFA. I just think the community might need to consider it's direction asa whole. Is there a critical mass of players/DMs neede to make sure when a new server comes along the game doesn't become...duller?

And i think those awesome threads about static content that can be used is just great. Exactly what we need:)

[dob85y]

As another new player (not the one quoted in the first post) id like to add my thoughts. Sofar i have experienced life around Rivermoot in TSM server. My first thoughts are that i want to do something, anything, the marshal is a handy place to start, but in no time you are faced with impossible tasks for a 1st level anything when you are alone. This leaves you standing around waiting for other players to log on, than they have to be in your level range for you to even get any combat exp, this is very hard to tell because you cannot see any details (i like this feature BTW but it makes it hard when deciding to join a party).

I guess what im saying there should be enough static experience around for a single player to reach about level 3. It dosnt have to be quick, or easy, it just has to be available for those who are willing to undertake, one thing though is it should be easy to find, ongoing tasks that lead characters into afiliations can be a good way to give them background, like the Leigon in RM, which is fine for good aligned characters, but what about those who wish to walk the shadier path?

By the time a player has gained level three they are strong enough to explore a bit and (mostly) not get killed by a lucky arrow, and should either be able to hide, hit or magic them selves out of a reasonable situation as long as they are not being reckless, and by the time they reach level three they will want to keep playing their character because there is now a sense of achievment tied to it. A quick way to lose new players is make it impossible to get past lv 1 without help, or when even with help they get no combat experience creating a very viscous circle of just trying to survive and never advancing.

I think that skill based statics are much better for the level 1 to 2 range with very low risk combat attached, clearing out basements of vermin, moving bails of hay while chasing off snakes ect.

Another good static is the delivery person, but have the delivery points set up so it introduces areas to players as they are doing their deliveries, this way they can learn who to talk to at higher levels when they are strong enough to handle the encounters that are being given out.

[AcadiusLost]

This leaves you standing around waiting for other players to log on, than they have to be in your level range for you to even get any combat exp, this is very hard to tell because you cannot see any details (i like this feature BTW but it makes it hard when deciding to join a party).

It's important to remember- combat XP should be only a tiny fraction of your total XP in ALFA, it's just never been a setting in which unsupervised combat against unpossessed foes yielded significant advancement (besides the occasional bugged creature blueprint which overawards). Your characters themselves have no concept of XP, so any consideration of whether or not to party up should be entirely in-character (and not the meta-gaming "man, it'll take me longer to level if I party up"). In actuality, getting 1-2 xp for a kobold instead of getting 4-8 xp isn't much of a difference, and your odds of survival when in a party are far, far greater, since there are others around who can assist you if you're knocked into negatives. Just do what makes sense in-character, and be patient.

TSM has more static scripted quests than you've found by the sounds of it now, and more are being added; but writing, implementing, and debugging balanced static quests is about the single most complicated and time-consuming thing a builder can do currently, so it's a slow process (that tends to eat away at DM time, since the DMs are the ones working on quests in the toolset).

[dob85y]

I was going to edit my original post after last nights session, but i think now it is better to reply, i would like to change a little of what i said initially, i think that the statics that d exist, (i was shown another last night) need to be a little more carefully advertised, not shouted from the rooftops, but perhaps (and maybe they are but i havnt found them) hinted at by NPC's in random conversations, or if and when a character completes a quest.

My biggest fear of exploring is that is the road safe to travel alone? at level one the caution overtakes the curiosity so i stand around hoping someone shows up nearby and wants to do stuff.

All that said, im having a great time, those i have met (players) have been really cool towards me as a new player, helping out with statics that are suicide for a solo low level character, and generally making me feel welcome, thanks all, see ya online.

[Bren]

I had a couple of problems when getting onto the server that soured my first experience of ALFA.

Firstly, thanks once again to ArcadiusLost who was able to fix my character.

After walking around Silverymoon for a good hour or two roleplaying by myself it got boring very quickly. From what I've heard I can't go out by myself because I'll be dead and there's nobody else in town, especially DM's. I haven't found any static quests yet but I'm not even certain whether I'd do it. I created the character to RP not quest

Does anybody else besides myself and dob85y live in GMT +10 or so timezone?

[Kest]

Silverymoon is mostly unfinished at the moment, and doesn't get much traffic save for the mage college. More people tend to gather at Rivermoot and High Hold.

Additionally, the Argent Legion regularly patrols the highway leading from Rivermoot to Silverymoon - as long as travelers keep to the roads they should be relatively safe.

[Bren]

Silverymoon is mostly unfinished at the moment, and doesn't get much traffic save for the mage college.

I've spent an awful amount of time looking for that place without any luck.

Additionally, the Argent Legion regularly patrols the highway leading from Rivermoot to Silverymoon - as long as travelers keep to the roads they should be relatively safe.

Unfortunately, neither me nor my character knows where to go, npcs don't give directions and rarely speak if only to grunt. My poor character now has the impression that everyone in Silverymoon is an asshole ..

[Kest]

Leave by the northwestern gate and follow the highway west.

This kind of thing would be perfect for a Gather Info tool that you could use to simulate asking the locals general questions.

[Brokenbone]

A "New to TSM" thread may be helpful in the TSM forum, meant for genuine new players getting integrated, basic questions, etc.

Dorn's kickoff post though, I guess properly belongs in the "general" NWN2 Brainstorming forum, though it's really just saying three problems are we need (1) more content, (2) more helpful players, (3) more DMs.

In one way or another, those are always the problems, until you get into a groove /sweet spot where you've integrated into a group of like-timezoned, likeminded players & DMs.

[fluffmonster]

As it turns out, along with an omnipresent shortage of DMs, ALFA has become a defacto campaign play area, where the way to get game is to schedule times where people meet. Unfortunately, this clashes with the persistent myth that we can have "persistent" play, by which I mean you log on and find game in an unscheduled fashion. This happens and is a good way to rp with other PCs, but you can't bet on it. This community self-misconception is what will ultimately be the cause of any ALFA demise.

I think new people need to understand this so as to at least have accurate expectations. Scheduled play is the way to find DMd game. Wandering about the server is indeed not a path to entertainment.

[zicada]

As it turns out, along with an omnipresent shortage of DMs, ALFA has become a defacto campaign play area, where the way to get game is to schedule times where people meet. Unfortunately, this clashes with the persistent myth that we can have "persistent" play, by which I mean you log on and find game in an unscheduled fashion. This happens and is a good way to rp with other PCs, but you can't bet on it. This community self-misconception is what will ultimately be the cause of any ALFA demise.

I think new people need to understand this so as to at least have accurate expectations. Scheduled play is the way to find DMd game. Wandering about the server is indeed not a path to entertainment.

Looking at it from a slightly more positive POV, the fact that there seems to be quite a few new players showing up lately, could mean that we CAN be more persistant. If the problem is ultimately a lack of DM's, post about running a DM training course, and im sure you could get a few onboard.

[Dorn]

I had a couple of problems when getting onto the server that soured my first experience of ALFA.

Firstly, thanks once again to ArcadiusLost who was able to fix my character.

After walking around Silverymoon for a good hour or two roleplaying by myself it got boring very quickly. From what I've heard I can't go out by myself because I'll be dead and there's nobody else in town, especially DM's. I haven't found any static quests yet but I'm not even certain whether I'd do it. I created the character to RP not quest

Does anybody else besides myself and dob85y live in GMT +10 or so timezone?

Yep i'm gmt +10. And there's some others like THangorn (PC - Reghed) etc as well
CHeck the dm/player sheduling thread in teh TSM forums.

I'll PM tomorrow and see if we can get you to meet up with us when we play

[AcadiusLost]

I've spent an awful amount of time looking for that place without any luck.

Silverymoon South, there should be a map peg (use the "M" key to bring up the map) visible for "The Lady's College", which is the arcane university. You will probably have to cross the moonbridge to get there.

[fluffmonster]

Looking at it from a slightly more positive POV, the fact that there seems to be quite a few new players showing up lately, could mean that we CAN be more persistant. If the problem is ultimately a lack of DM's, post about running a DM training course, and im sure you could get a few onboard.

Sure, more people could just play together adhoc if we didn't intentionally trivialize the rewards to non-DMd activities. That's what makes the lack of DMs so crippling.