<Cipher> First item - Global Scripts
<Ronan> As in ACR, or modular content?
<Cipher> Only two things: Death/KO and Seamless AT
<Ronan> k
<Ronan> Acadius is on Seamless ATing.
<Cipher> Great.
<Ronan> I've faith he'll get it done.
<Hterael> I'm sure he will
<Cipher> Is he going to take what Hialmar started?
<Cipher> Or rewrite?
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<Ronan> He wants to do a re-write. I'm not biased either way as long as it gets done, given that we aren't going to be going with a dynamic area system anymore.
<Hterael> give him voice someone?
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<Cipher> Alright, I'll probably commit Hialmar's work to the repository just for reference
<Ronan> sounds good
<Cipher> I've been testing the death scriptings this week. The only thing left to do is work out kinks with persistence.
<Cipher> I probably shouldn't be that concerned about it though
<Cipher> since things may well change, but I don't like leaving loose ends.
<Cipher> I've modified acr_it_persist_i a fair amount - adding in supporting functions and fixing bugs as I've come across them.
<Cipher> Anyone have any questions?
<Cipher> Ok, let's talk about ABR content, which is where most of the focus is atm.
<Ronan> I've put the first "version" of the ABR up.
<Ronan> Given that TLK references don't work I can add items, so its just doors for now.
<Cipher> Blueprints in the repository too?
<Ronan> Its not a hak file like I wanted, but instead a campaign.
<Ronan> No, they aren't, as I don't believe contributors would actually use the repository, unfortunately. They are all on the FTP For now.
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<Ronan> But I can add them there for safe keeping, I just don't have any illusions that people will really use it.
<Ronan> maybe each release should be stored there?
<Cipher> Right. It's mostly for our use - versioning and control.
<Ronan> k
<Ronan> thread is here: http://www.alandfaraway.org/phpbbforum/ ... hp?t=33519
<Cipher> Yes, I was hoping to be able to run releases from there....as I've never done one yet, I'm not sure what tools sourceforge provides to facilitate it.
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<Cipher> What did you mean by "campaign"?
<Cipher> As in, they are just campaign blueprints?
<Ronan>Short of having everyone delete or alter their templates.zip, I don't think there is any way we can override it.
<Cipher> we lost our logger!
<Hterael> heheh
<Cipher> nm, carry on, I'll PM him any gaps in the log
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<Ronan> NWN2 is so far away from being ready, I'd rather focus on getting blueprints done.
<Cipher> I was thinking the same thing - backup Templates.zip and use ALFA's version
<Ronan> Other options may be presented to us in the future.
<Cipher> True.
<Ronan> By patches.
<Cipher> I'm just curious what that would do.
<Ronan> That works, I did try that.
<Cipher> Ok, so it's a possibility - good to know.
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<Sandermann> thought id drop by, seeing as ive been fighting NWN2 for a couple of weeks
<Cipher> Thanks for joining in Sand
<Ronan> Yeah, we were just saying how un-ready NWN2 is.
<Ronan> So we are concentrating on what we can do for now, and waiting to see what OE does.
<Sandermann> kk, well afk a sec, but i'll be happy to try and counter argue that
<Cipher> Since you are here
<Cipher> Have you tested the NWNX4 prototype Sand?
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<Cipher> I'll ask again when he gets back...let's talk about creatures next.
<Ronan> Creatures, we haven't had any contributions on.
<Cipher> I'll ask again when he gets back...let's talk about creatures next.
<Ronan> Creatures, we haven't had any contributions on.
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<Bool> so sorry - net dropped out
<Leareth> np at all man
<Cipher> Np Bool.
<Cipher> Well, that's not good. There's a ton of work to do there.
<Ronan> yes, I know.
<Ronan> A lot of people are working and haven't uploaded anything yet.
<Ronan> I've got most of orcs and goblins done, for example
<Leareth> did spider put up his trolls?
<Sandermann> back
<Ronan> No.
<Ronan> Though I PMed him and asked him to, and he read the PM, so I can hope.
<Ronan> though just trolls are easy.
<Sandermann> are you waiting for CC or expansions to make creatures we dont have models for?
<Cipher> He was doing more than that though...giant/large creatures I believe.
<Leareth> well unless we can get a modeler we're kinda stuck
<Cipher> We don't have much choice as far as I can see Sand. We don't have any modelers
<Sandermann> er
<Sandermann> me, gribo, Voran
<Ronan> In some cases yes, Sandermann.
<Sandermann> but thats beside the point, we cant make models yet anyway
<Cipher> You have the tools you need?
<Sandermann> I dont have granny
<Cipher> If so, fantastic.
<Ronan> but the community needs the same models we do at this point, so I think its kinda moot.
<Sandermann> it costs several thousand dollars
<Sandermann>
<Ronan> Bugbears, beholders, decent orcs.
<Cipher> So I've heard.
<Ronan> err
<Sandermann> hm
<Ronan> hobgoblins, that is
<Leareth> and is a pain to get right since we'd also have to animate them
<Sandermann> not really, the game has enough skeletons in it to cover all the humanoids
<Cipher> Unless we have the people and the tools, I see no reason to discuss new models. We'll either have to wait on the community or OE. Yes?
<Sandermann> you animate the skeleton, not the model
<Ronan> bugbear's should work fine I'd think.
<Leareth> true we might have enough skeletons to work
<Sandermann> yeah, all I meant was are we waiting or fudging with models we do have?
<Cipher> Oh, good question.
<Ronan> there is plenty we can do with the models we do have, so I don't think its an issue at this point.
<Sandermann> NU is still using using lizardmen as Kua-Toa
<Sandermann> :/
<Cipher> Hopefully, they've been tyring to follow standards
<Sandermann> I'd offer the creatires im making for HoW, but I dont think they'll meet ALFA req's
<Ronan> As soon as someone asks for item events to script from, I'll upload a ACR hak with the item script api.
<Cipher> Might give someone a running start though if you're willing to give them your erfs sand. What are you making?
<Ronan> Consumables are ready, btw. I do need to double-check over spells.2da and look for some more spell-level bugs.
<Cipher> We can change resrefs/tags and add locals easily enough.
<Sandermann> near enough everything, but its a fixed HP system. Can have them if you want though
<Sandermann> What about Spell VFX ronan?
<Ronan> You mean for added spells?
<Ronan> or removing them?
<Sandermann> I was considering going through every spell script and removing the existing VFX
<Ronan> ah
<Ronan> I had actually started that, until I read the 1.03 patch notes
<Ronan> and noted all the changes to spell scripts.
<Sandermann> ah, yeah
<Ronan> I thought it was worth waiting...
<Leareth> it might we worth holding off till things settle a bit
<Ronan> I'm debating creating a custom spellhook function with a find/replace now...
<Sandermann> can we remove spell VFX by spellhook, or are the VFX linked to the spells effect?
<Ronan> Which passes along parameters like subschools and spell descriptors to the spellhook.
<Ronan> linked
<Sandermann> ok
<Ronan> there shouldn't be too many
<Ronan> I did all of NWN1's OOC spell VFX while in class one day.
<Ronan> Didn't take long.
<Cipher> Hmmm...don't tell your mom that.
<Cipher>
* Leareth smacks Cipher
<Sandermann> I'll probably do them over the weekend if you want them
<Sandermann> if I can track this crash on join bug down that is
<Ronan> ah, sweet
<Ronan> I can start at the Zs if you want
<Ronan> and work backwards
<Sandermann> are you modifying the spell scripts other wise?
<Ronan> Yes, but most of that will be done with find/replaces
<Sandermann> ok
<Ronan> GetCasterLevel() becomes ACR_GetCasterLevel(), etc
<Sandermann> k
<Ronan> though depending on how nwnx4 works, we may not need that.
<Ronan> As it supposedly allows you to intercept native function calls.
<Sandermann> ive not looked at NWNx yet
<Cipher> Looks like we forgot to note the Spell VFXs in the abr to do thread, but it sounds like it's almost a done deal.
<Ronan> the default ones are cringe-worthy
<Ronan> mage armor, ugh
<Sandermann> I'll be doing them for HoW anyway, so I can pass them along no probs
<Sandermann> yep
<Ronan> cool
<Sandermann> and the flashing cards for buffs
<Sandermann> wtf is that all about
<Ronan> heh
<Ronan> Well the effects list is so hard to read now...
<Ronan> at least those tell you what is wearing off.
<Cipher> couldn't make heads or tails of them though
<Sandermann> yeah, I looked at trying to add in weapon VFX again
<Ronan> Oh, does anyone have a good suggestion on how to flag specific item properties as "mundane"?
<Ronan> If in fact there is a way to do so easy enough to make it worth doing
<Leareth> ah for like mw?
<Ronan> I figured an extra IP would work...
<Ronan> "IP before this is mundane" or something.
<Ronan> MW and other stuff, yeah.
<Cipher> Are we done with creatures? Let's get through that before moving on please.
<Leareth> pardon me but IP?
<Ronan> item property
<Ronan> I don't have anything more to say on creatures.
<Cipher> What about the creature related 2das?
<Cipher> Darren submitted the skills.2da
<Cipher> did you get a chance to review?
<Ronan> fortunately, skills.2da isn't needed for the vast majority of creatures.
<Ronan> So until the tlk files work, I don't think we should use it.
<Cipher> Ok. What about feats?
<Sandermann> are we certain we will be able to use new skills at all?
<Ronan> Your guess is as good as mine, sand.
<Sandermann> OE have been rather reticent on replying to any of my threads
<Cipher> Million dollar question?
<Ronan> Feats, we are sticking with OE for the most part, except PnP skill related feats I guess, if indeed we can even add them.
<Sandermann> for now, im going with no in my building :/
<Ronan> again, not something that impacts creatures.
<Ronan> Unless people are going to be giving creatures the "blooded" feat
<Ronan> or similar.
<Ronan> I did finish finals, so I have more time until I go home for xmas.
<Sandermann> if I can diverege from creatures. has anyone looked at the VFX editor and .sefs?
<Ronan> aand yeah, I looked at skill.2da, as soon as Darren submits the rest with the class skills I'll look at 'em again
<Ronan> I've played with it briefly, but I dunno anything on the file structure.
<Cipher> Not yet Sand
<Sandermann> I think adding the cosmetic RP content such as packs and scabbards shouldnt be ignored
<Cipher> Too busy building.
<Ronan> I'd prefer not to duplicate work the community is likely going to do
<Sandermann> fair enough
<Ronan> but, since I'm not a modeller.
* Ronan| shrugs.
<Leareth> I agree it should be done but well... yeah
<Sandermann> well, I dont think .sefs can be models, just single plane textures
<Ronan> I could try and steal Maya, my Uni has it on some PCs somewhere...
<Ronan> ah
<Ronan> just particle effects then?
<Sandermann> no no
<Sandermann> well, yes technically
<Sandermann> but your particle could be single, large, fixed at the PCs belt and look like a scabbard
<Sandermann>
<Cipher> So you just need the proper texture handy?
<Ronan> particles don't tend to be rotated iirc
<Ronan> related to camera position, but I get your point
<Sandermann> they can be fixed to object XYZ, ive noticed that
<Sandermann> object XYZ, world XYZ or camera iirc
<Sandermann> but anyway, not important
<Sandermann> afk again a sec, sorry
<Leareth> it would be a nice touch and should be a priority once we get through the basics
<Cipher> Does OE not support any 2da customizations or is just that there are line limits impeding us?
<Ronan> line limits in some cases, but they really don't impede us
<Ronan> its TLK refs that don't work.
<Cipher> ah okk. so it's all gibberish
<Ronan> well, just blank
<Leareth> it doesn't recognise the changes have been made?
<Cipher> k. so what's the verdict then? should we defer any 2da which requires custom tlk lines?
<Sandermann> can I raise a point on deffering things?
<Cipher> Of course.
<Sandermann> its slightly divergent, but I think its relevant
<Sandermann> we're in a much smaller niche than we were in NWN1
<Sandermann> if we defer and wait too long, then players will have established elsewhere and we'll be in the same situation with density we are now
<Leareth> my only counter to is that why put effort into something we can't complete
<Ronan> Well we aren't really waiting, or at least I'm not.
<Sandermann> ok
<Ronan> there are so many other things to be done, I just wait on the stuff we can't.
<Leareth> exactly we do what we can and wait on what we can't
<Ronan> anyways, I'm still doing 2das.
<Ronan> I've done a ton of them.
<Sandermann> yeah
<Cipher> are you suggesting, sand, that we still add in the 2da entries we need even if we lack the tlk references to render names/descriptions in-game?
<Ronan> and I've got a lot of the tlk file populated.
<Ronan> We can always overwrite the default dialog.tlk, Cipher.
<Sandermann> yes cipher
<Sandermann> and yeah, over writing the default dialog.tlk is an option that should be considered
<Sandermann> (imo)
<Sandermann> im seriously considering doing so, as its whats really holding me back
<Cipher> are there any line limits in tlk files?
<Sandermann> yeah.hm
<Ronan> 2^31
<Ronan> so no
<Cipher> heh
<Cipher> yeah
<Sandermann> thats it
<Sandermann>
<Ronan> err
<Ronan> wait, 2^15 I think
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<Sandermann> 16777xxx or something
<Ronan> don't even remember whats added
<Ronan> I just use tlk-edit and control-u
<Cipher> so if we had to, we could just create a custom tlk with all the existing dialog.tlk entries included?
<Ronan> yes
<Ronan> easy
<Cipher> Ok, so it's a no brainer.
<Sandermann> hm, can somone explain that?
<Ronan> though most of the 2da stuff I did was during pre-release, and use custom-tlk refs, but that shouldn't take too long to un-do
<Sandermann> can you use a custom tlk that is a copy of the dialog.tlk?
<Ronan> I just find editing 2das less fun than jump off buildings.
<Ronan> oh
<Sandermann> of course, using a custom tlk breaks the updater
<Cipher> Then it isn't really an option.
<Sandermann> so youd have to make sure we had a back up of the default for download, as people are bound to ignore the warning and not back up
<Ronan> I would like someone to play with racialsubtypes.2da and get the skin/hair tones right
<Ronan> they are a tiny bit off for a few races, and some races of course aren't included, like artict dwarves.
<Bool> (( gotta run now sorry - will keep logging ))
<Sandermann> im not using the subraces at all, so cant help you on that one
<Cipher> The idea was, as you said, to copy the existing dialog.tlk and just extend it with custom entries. This new file would then replace the dialog.tlk but anyway. It's moot if it breaks updates.
<Ronan> updater does md5 checks.
<Ronan> so yeah...
<Ronan> but meh
<Sandermann> Cipher, you just have to swap in the default again to update
<Ronan> not that big a deal if every PW has to go through it
<Ronan> still I can't imagine them not fixing custom tlks
<Cipher> yeah but I'm not sure we can't expect players to do that.
<Ronan> we wouldn't have a choice
<Cipher> well the choice is to not extend 2das where existing tlk entries don't support them.
<Sandermann> has anyone tired entering a string directly into a 2da where it references the .tlk at all?
<Ronan> there is a thread on that in the NWN2 boards
<Sandermann> no workie?
<Ronan> it works on fewer 2das in NWN2 than it did in NWN2, evidentally
<Cipher> I haven't touched them yet.
<Ronan> but they are adding the functionality back, they claim
<Sandermann> ok
<Sandermann> "claim"
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<Ronan> played with ranges.2da at all Sand?
<Sandermann> personally, I think NWN2 is ready for PWs as is
<Cipher> It seems strange that they kept all the game data structures but broke our ability to extend them
<Sandermann> no, not yet
<Ronan> I dunno, the DM client and server seem to crash relatively frequently.
<Sandermann> DM client , yeah
<Sandermann> my server has only crashed when ive made errors, besides this latest bug
<Sandermann> which I think is a corrupt mod now
<Ronan> I've heard tons of problems with the server crashing
<Ronan> ahh
<Sandermann> Ronan, ive heard a few, but from my experience im inclined to think most of the reported crashes are dur to scripting errors
<Ronan> heh
<Ronan> scripting errors shouldn't crash a server, technically
<Ronan> though they do in NWN1 in the case of looped events
<Sandermann> my server was stable for 28 hours in its previous incarnation
<Sandermann> yeah
<Sandermann> theres a lot of people working with NWN2 who dont have experience from NWN1, and they are the ones getting the crashes for the most part
<Ronan> dunno, its pretty hard to loop an event
<Ronan> if we can document the stuff that causing the crashes it would be a big help
<Ronan> NWN1 used to have broken functions that would do it
<Sandermann> yeah
<Ronan> or some odd things like disarming someone as they went through an AT
<Sandermann> ok, well ive got some, but they are almost all DM client related
<Leareth> still any info is good
<Sandermann> if a DM tries to join an area at the same time a PC is loading into it, server crashes
<Ronan> ya, most of the ones I've read of were dm-client related too
<Sandermann> if a DM tries to jump to a PC, server crashes
<Ronan> rofl
<Sandermann>
<Cipher> Alright, anything to be said for items? sorry, trying to keep the meeting moving.
<Ronan> I can put the consumables up, but I don't think anyone needs thme.
<Ronan> and some of the IPs would be blank due to missing TLK refs
<Ronan> Anyone heard from Rusty?
<Sandermann> nope
<Ronan> crap :-\
<Cipher> me neither. he hasn't responded to my PM either.
<Sandermann> not seen him in ages, think he finally had enough
<Ronan> I think he burned out horridly.
<Sandermann> I motion we re-phrase "burned out" to "ALFA'd out"
<Ronan> heh
<Leareth> heh
<Sandermann> burn out implies its worload related and not community related
<Cipher> well I hope not
<Cipher> but I suppose I can understand
<Sandermann> eh, I'm ALFA's out but not burned out
<Ronan> Given that the community seems completely insane, yeah.
<Ronan> Anyways...
<Ronan> Placeables?
<Sandermann> new ones?
<Ronan> ABR ones, cipher?
<Cipher> Hang on a sec. Are we going to wait on Rusty?
<Ronan> For placeables? Why?
<Cipher> No items.
<Ronan> Oh.
<Ronan> I wasn't planning on it, no.
<Ronan> So I can try to get to it when I get to it
<Ronan> which could be a while, heh.
<Cipher> Just because we can't just wait indefinitely.
<Cipher> We can decide on that later if someone's able to pick it upt.
<Cipher> Ok placeables.
<Cipher> I reviewed Blackwill's containers, which is about a third of what he put together. I've got a list of questions and issues drawn up that I need to review with him.
<Cipher> I was hoping to discuss one thing here though
<Cipher> Hitpoints.
<Sandermann> hehe
<Sandermann> EffectBonusHitpoints opens up a lot of options
<Cipher> According to the SRD, it's computed as 10/inch of thickness. So this is obviously pretty arbitrary when we can't measure such things.
<Cipher> ATM, all the placeables are set to the default 15
<Ronan> I thought it should be a judgement value from the ABR builder based on appearance.
<Cipher> I don't think everything should have 15 hps...but the formula is arbitrary, unless we want to define HPs on something clearer, like size.
<Ronan> iirc, hardness doesn't even work now though.
<Leareth> is it worth changing them all?
<Cipher> we should code it correctly nonetheless
<Ronan> there aren't that many, Leareth.
<Cipher> there's 166 of them so far
<Ronan> Also, we need a seperate classification for dynamically-spawned placeables
<Cipher> interesting point
<Cipher> let's talk about that too, after HPs
<Ronan> placeables spawned by CreateObject() without dyanmic collisions obviously don't work well
<Ronan> ok
<Ronan> You see any reason to leave it to anything but a subjective value, based off of DMG numbers?
<Cipher> if nobody cares, I'll just ask Blackwill to change the numbers according to his judgement
<Ronan> thats what I told him to do to begin with
<Ronan> base the stats off of DMG values, but do not limit yourself to them
<Cipher> I'm quite ambivalent, but I would hope things would be fairly consistent
<Ronan> the ACR scripts automatically apply crit immunity and such things to all non-static, non-plot placeables
<Cipher> so flimsy or small has less HPs than strong or big
<Ronan> (though like hardness, I don't think DR on placeables works in NWN2 now either)
<Sandermann> out of curiosity; if an object is non-static but also non-useable, does it take damage from AOE?
<Ronan> worst-case we go to an OnDamaged script, or don't bother with it.
<Ronan> yea
<Sandermann> ok
<Ronan> at least it used to
<Ronan> pretty sure it still does
<Cipher> alright, I'll see if Blackwill is willing to adjust them to something more appropriate
<Cipher> on the dynamic collisions issue you brought up
<Cipher> can we simply set all placeable objects we expect to be "moveable" to have this setting on TRUE?
<Ronan> yes, that was already in the placeable specs.
<Ronan> But we need a seperate classification for dynamically spawnable placeables
<Ronan> as well as a different resref/tag I think, for use in spawn groups.
<Cipher> ok, Blackwill must have missed it. Not a big deal, but it needs to be revised.
<Ronan> We want the DM to be able to tell the difference, naturally.
<Ronan> ok
<Cipher> wouldn't dynamically spanwable placeabes be the same as movable ones?
<Ronan> yes
<Ronan> but some things we want dynamically spawnable we don't want moveable
<Ronan> like carts, etc
<Cipher> Ok, nothing else on placeables.
<Sandermann> moveable placeables?
<Ronan> was one of the biggest requests actually
<Cipher> Yes, placeables you can pick up and move.
<Sandermann> as in, use it, pick it up, use item in inventory, placeable appears?
<Ronan> we don't have it coded yet, but we added a spec for it in placeable creature.
<Ronan> *creation
<Ronan> yeah.
<Sandermann> ok
<Leareth> so you can move like furnature
<Ronan> builder defines the weight for movable things.
<Cipher> right
<Leareth> it would be a neat feature since people could then buy houses and then buy some furnature
<Cipher> Ok, I think that wraps up ABR content - the stuff being worked on anyway.
<Ronan> I think it will be mostly used for pulling up stools in taverns.
<Ronan> creating fortifications
<Cipher> yeah moving around barricades
<Cipher> fun
<Sandermann> placing a ring of chairs around a door to get your own private inn
<Leareth> LOL
<Cipher> give a new dimension to village assaults - some new tactical elements would exist anyway
<Sandermann> eh
<Leareth> haul in a bed roll and a table and hey
<Sandermann> they dont give cover modifiers
<Sandermann> thought, that is possible with a trigger
<Leareth> true but PC's can't go through them either
<Leareth> while they might not give cover it might provide a nice way to chanel opponents
<Sandermann> yeah..silly AIs
<Sandermann>
<Cipher> and/or hide
<Ronan> Anyways...
<Cipher> but anyway...
<Ronan> whats next?
<Cipher> That's it for ABR.
<Cipher> Toolset/building stuff next.
<Cipher> Plugins....Bools away
<Cipher> so nothing there.
<Cipher> No builders at the meeting either so I don't think there's anything left to discuss.
<Cipher> sand, could you post your critters to the alfatech ftp?
<Sandermann> when they are all done up, sure
<Cipher> open discussion so if there's anything else you want to discuss, feel free to speak up
<Sandermann> ah, got one building bug if its relevant
<Cipher> ok thanks
<Cipher> shoot
<Sandermann> bah, one sec
<Sandermann> drunken flatmate, brb
<Ronan> oh, forgot to mention I'm combining some of the 2da work from that guy's 3.5 conversion.
<Cipher>
<Leareth> oh before I forget let me link acouple of things from the vault that might be of interest
<Cipher> that reminds me
<Cipher> there was a post a while back on the nwn2 forums about the PRC group
<Cipher> they had created a bunch of new icons
<Cipher> Leareth, are you working on any icons?
<Leareth> yeah a little. I haven't had much time to do many
<Cipher> do you have any samples or do you have anything done you want to post?
<Leareth> I was mostly doing spells though
<Leareth> ah well ronan has my coins
<Cipher> I think the PRC icons were for spells too - might want to use them if they have what we need.
<Leareth> I can try and put my modified detect magic up
<Cipher> Ok, my time is up. Meeting time was shorter this week by about an hour. Heh.
<Cipher> Every little bit helps Leareth.
<Sandermann> sorry about that
<Sandermann> yeah, two baking problems
<Cipher> Ok I have to run folks. Thanks for coming. Bool, I'll PM you the gap in the logs.
<Ronan> yup, the icons are up on the ftp
<Sandermann> stairs wont bake walkable at the top
<Ronan> whats the bug, Sandermann?
<Ronan> ack
<Ronan> so that means even if you cut 'em, pathfinding is fscked? ;|
<Leareth> http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... tail&id=22
<Sandermann> and if you have two tiles with no walls next to each other, one normally bakes as unwalkable
<Leareth> that's the sittable chairs
<Sandermann> oh, Ive got a work around for that
<Leareth> http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... etail&id=9
<Sandermann> which is far less intensive...that needs a HB on every damn chhair
<Sandermann>
<Leareth> ok just making sure people know it works
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<Sandermann> yeah, sittable chairs are do-able
<Ronan> can't it just toggle the hb script as needed?
<Leareth> err avalible the second is a dragon tinting override
<Sandermann> theres no "un sit" event ronan
<Ronan> ya, but if the hb detects no sitters, it can turn itself on
<Ronan> err, off
<Ronan> turn back on again when someone sits
<Sandermann> theres no "sit" event either
<Ronan> its not OnUsed?
<Sandermann> yeah, but how does it know its been un-used when they get up
<Ronan> the hb, which could deactivate itself
<Ronan> or a pseudohb I guess
<Sandermann> hm
<Ronan> I guess the later is preferable, since it won't interfere with some other custom hb that might be used.
<Sandermann> gets turned on by on_use, when it detects no creature object within distance 0.1, turns the HB off and sets sittable again?
<Ronan> ya, thats what I was thinking
<Sandermann> kk
* Sandermann steals idea
<Sandermann>
<Ronan> ;o
<Leareth> heh
<Sandermann> has anyone begun work on an emote tool yet?
<Ronan> and since we'll have standardized sitting code, if OE ever fixes it will be an easy switch.
<Ronan> ugh
<Ronan> I haven't looked at gui stuff at all
<Sandermann> GUI isnt an option, crashes is you add too many
<Ronan> not sure if we can define custom windows and callbacks and stuff in XML
<Sandermann> not many at all according to paaz
<Ronan> rly?
<Sandermann> so he said
<Ronan> he did not tell me thus
<Ronan> hmph.
<Sandermann> think an item is the way to go
<Sandermann> yeah well, I get all the love
<Sandermann>
<Sandermann> dice bag?
<Ronan> Was going for DMFI
<Sandermann> looked at the DMFI stuff...
<Sandermann> ok
<Leareth> DMFI is pretty nice
<Ronan> they even have their own DM training mod :F
<Ronan> which I like
<Ronan> cause ALFA training is lol
<Sandermann> is it easy to implement, not looked at it yet?
<Ronan> ya, though...
<Ronan> I hate how the language stuff is included
<Ronan> should be optional, imo
<Sandermann> eh
<Leareth> we can't cut it?
<Ronan> we could, yeah, but that means we gotta issue our own erf each time they update, etc
<Sandermann> im gonna poll HoWs members and see if we want languages
<Leareth> yeah not worth it. Not sure if we'd use it but hey
<Ronan> ya, I should do the same
<Sandermann> in servers ive played on with it, its very good
<Sandermann> youd be amazed how much meta is "acidentally" passed with people being able to hear things they shouldnt understand
<Ronan> ya I know
<Ronan> just ment we'd prolly define our own languages
<Sandermann> ahh
<Ronan> our own GetKnowsLanguage(oPC) function
<Ronan> etc
<Ronan> haven't looked at DMFI's closely tho
<Ronan> it might be really modular
<Leareth> if it is then we can use it
<Ronan> as long as its not like that seamless AT code Hialmar built off of
<Ronan> don't remember the original author's name, but sheesh.
<Sandermann> what is the movement on FF style travel areas?
<Sandermann> do you want my "grass" trees?
<Leareth> speaking of languages I hope to nock out the language and alphabet stuff this weekend
<Ronan> have you got 'em working?
<Ronan> I guess its just a texture, right?
<Sandermann> the trees?
<Ronan> ya
<Ronan> coo'
<Sandermann> yeah, I lined up four NWN2 trees, took 4 screen shots of them as they moved and mande the animated textures from it
<Ronan> ah, cool
<Ronan> yes, those would be great
<Ronan> I should add Sandermann to tech staff.
<Sandermann> ok, I'm going to make a few more types. They arent exactly bug files
<Ronan> So he can participate in awesome alfa politics
<Ronan> u kno u want to
<Sandermann> already infra
<Ronan> oh, right
<Ronan> mod
<Sandermann> eh well
<Sandermann> "staff" is an ALFA creation anyhow
*** Quit: Leareth (Quit: SorceryNet CGI:IRC (EOF))
<Sandermann> ok, so, does DMFI have an emote tool?
<Ronan> believe so
<Sandermann> kk
<Ronan> were you just gunna put your trees up on the vault?
<Sandermann> no
<Sandermann> I detest the vaults upload system
<Ronan> oh
<Ronan> fsck
<Sandermann> I mights post up I have them and external link I suppose
<Sandermann> what?
<Ronan> my windows explorer keeps crashing
<Ronan> hmm
<Ronan> k, put it here I guess then: ftp://alfatech:moonblade@ftp.alandfaraway.org/Textures
<Sandermann> kk, are youching the grass.2da?
<Sandermann> *touching
<Sandermann> if not, I'll just stick my grass 2da in with them, of course theres no 2da entry
<Ronan> wasn't before this, but I guess we will be
<Ronan> k
<Sandermann> no tlk entry sorry
<Sandermann> done
<Sandermann> only pine tree group done for now, I'll do the rest as I need them
<Ronan> shweet
<Sandermann> have you ahd feedback from anyone building areas on module size?
<Ronan> only my own testing
<Sandermann> ok
<Ronan> no one else has a big enough mod
<Ronan> >=2gb still don't work :-\
<Sandermann> how big have you had a mod?
<Ronan> 2.1gb
<Sandermann> kk
<Ronan> just like that thread in the PW forums
<Ronan> 2gb was about 880 of ram usage
<Ronan> above that, won't even try to load
<Sandermann> if its anyuse, Im averaging 80mb for a 32x32 external and 4 or 5 for a 32x32 internal
<Sandermann> so dungeons are the way to go, methinks
<Ronan> yea
<Sandermann> Im worried I wont even be able to get my limited requirements in one mod
<Sandermann> never mind some of the ALFA pipe dreams.. :Z
<Ronan> heh, yeah
<Ronan> if that 2gb mod limit stays...
<Sandermann> even if it doesnt, load times on a 32x32 external are pretty severe at times
<Sandermann> god knows what theyd be like if the walkmesh wasnt client side
<Ronan> really?
<Ronan> In my testing AT time was nearly identicle
<Sandermann> hm
<Sandermann> in a populated area?
<Ronan> on some of indio's 32x32s at least
<Ronan> no creatures
<Sandermann> yeah, just placeables
<Sandermann> well..gues my main area is pretty extreme
<Sandermann> some people have reported up to a minute on it
<Sandermann> 32x32, around 600 placeables, 200 or so environment objects
<Ronan> :O
<Ronan> thats not so many...
<Sandermann> CPU stays around 20-30% throughout though, so its not so bad for everyone else
<Sandermann> but with the ATing bugs, it means a party could take 5 or 6 minutes to get through
<Ronan> heh
<Sandermann> rendering seems much faster though
<Ronan> ya, especially lots of plaeables
<Sandermann> I have about 60 NPCs spawned in that area when spawns are on
<Sandermann> and no ones complained of GFX issues yet
<Ronan> using NESS?
<Sandermann> nah, my own simpler system
<Sandermann> didnt need all of NESS functionality
<Ronan> ah
<Ronan> yeah, NESS is a fat pig
<Ronan> can't say my spawn system is simpler, but its a ton faster
<Sandermann> simliar idea, but more bare bones, it just spawns and despawns
<Ronan> ah
<Ronan> well wait, it is simpler
<Sandermann> my spawn waypoints dont drop creatures, they drop spawner objects
<Ronan> NESS is huge.
<Sandermann> the spawner objects then drop the creatures
<Ronan> why do that?
<Sandermann> its a simple to way to layer randomness
<Sandermann> "spawner_zombie" picks from 4 zombies say
<Sandermann> so if you drop a spawner_zombie, you get one of four zombies
<Ronan> ah
<Ronan> I do the same thing with arrays
<Sandermann> but if you drop "spawner_zombie_skeleton", it either drops a spawner skeleton or a spawner zombie, which then drops a creature
<Ronan> with 2 lists, one of items that always spawn on that point, and one of items that sometimes spawn
<Sandermann> yeah, I wanted a system that was easy for DMs to drop
<Ronan> items can be a spawn group script as well as a resref
<Sandermann> ah
<Sandermann> im using the random gear script I developed on NC aswell
<Ronan> cool, I'd like it if ABR creatures used random gear scripts, but its not a big deal to me. They are pretty specific per creature tho...
<Sandermann> you want that at all?
<Ronan> the one with the chests?
<Sandermann> yeah, ive sped it up a lot now
<Sandermann> wont work with NESS at all though
<Ronan> no, I think we need stuff a lot more seamless to the server teams than filling chests, ie a custom script per mob maybe.
<Ronan> well maybe not per mob, but quite a few of them
<Sandermann> the only reason I use chests is they are pchests, DMs can modify loot drops on the fly without any need to script
<Ronan> ah, yeah, I am opting to make it more difficult for DMs to adjust static loot drops, heh.
<Sandermann> yeah
<Ronan> staying within standards and all
<Sandermann> eh, not such a big deal for me
* Ronan| looks apon the single-server PW world with envy.
<Sandermann> hehe
<Ronan> Anyways, I gotta go put my car back together.
<Sandermann> k mate, laters
<Ronan> thx for the help Sandermann.
*** Part: Ronan| (Ronan@b27cd343.ga.at.6ca6b017.net.hmsk)
*** Part: Sandermann (tom_steven@70a9cf59.range86-137.5465e1c8.com.hmsk)