Session Ident: #alfatech
[15:53] * Now talking in #alfatech
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[15:55] * Bool sets mode: +o Ronan|AFK
[15:56] <cipher> Unfortunately, I don't think Rusty will be here
[15:56] <Ronan> crap
[15:57] <cipher> Blackwill's on but must be afk
[15:57] <cipher> got a few more mins before we start
[16:01] <Bool> can one of you hilight the other 3 and choice to "voice" them
[16:01] * cipher sets mode: +v Dhfx-TCL
[16:01] * cipher sets mode: +v HEEGZ
[16:01] * cipher sets mode: +v Rotku
[16:01] <HEEGZ> thx
[16:01] <cipher> Done
[16:02] <cipher> i'll give blackwill another minute
[16:02] <cipher> then let's get started
[16:03] * Dhfx-TCL raises hand
[16:03] * cipher is now known as cipher|WD-01
[16:03] <cipher> Yes Darren?
[16:03] <Dhfx> I'm assuming that this will be logged
[16:03] <cipher> yes it will.
[16:03] <Dhfx> kk
[16:04] <HEEGZ> i autolog everything on IRC :p
[16:04] <cipher> That reminds me, does the java client have a log setting?
[16:04] <HEEGZ> not that i know of
[16:04] <Rotku> java chat is horrible.
[16:05] <HEEGZ>
[16:05] <cipher> It's adequate for the little I spend on IRC
[16:05] <HEEGZ> hehe
[16:05] <HEEGZ> well, i have verified my log is working
[16:05] <cipher> Good. Would you mind posting it after the meeting?
[16:06] <HEEGZ> where to?
[16:07] <cipher> Basemod Management forum, title Meeting Minutes - 2006/12/8
[16:07] <cipher> Much obliged Heegz.
[16:09] <cipher> Ok, let's get started. If you folks don't mind, before we begin, could you state what server team you're on and what your role is, if any? Adding that to your nick as well would be helpful - we might eventually figure out who's doing what around here.
[16:10] * Bool is now known as Bool|SM-03
[16:10] <HEEGZ> <- Building the Open Application Server; has a Live expansion proposal pending.
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[16:10] <Bool> Silver Marches - TDM
[16:10] <cipher> I'm the current HDM for 01 (Waterdeep). I'm also handling the technical matters (all scripting) as well as building areas, though I hope to do less of that if possible.
[16:10] * Ronan|AFK sets mode: +v spiderjones
[16:10] <Dhfx> Darrenhfx of Team Cold Lands, covering for some busy team members
[16:11] <Rotku> I'm taking care of the tech details on the OAS2
[16:11] * Ronan|AFK is now known as Ronan|alfatech
[16:11] <cipher> Ok. Thank you.
[16:11] <Bool> Which servers aren't represented?
[16:12] <spiderjones> Err, HDM of The Sunset Vale server for NWN2, and doing some ABR stuff with creatures.
[16:12] * Rotku is now known as Rotku|OAS
[16:12] <cipher> Island Kingdoms - 09
[16:12] <cipher> Western Heartlands - 11
[16:13] <spiderjones> Nah, that's me. ;p
[16:13] <cipher> Which one, spider? WH?
[16:13] <spiderjones> Yea.
[16:13] <cipher> Ok great.
[16:13] <HEEGZ> I just thought I'd mention, that some of the server names in the approved list do not match the names on the proposal exactly.
[16:13] <cipher> Northdark - 27. I think this is Inaubryn's proposal. And he's on.
[16:14] <HEEGZ> For example, spider has Western Heartlands, though they call it TSV :p
[16:14] <HEEGZ> anyways, minor observation
[16:14] <spiderjones> Right, since there be large sections we aren't building.
[16:14] <spiderjones> Didn't want people to get the impression the others were off limits.
[16:14] <cipher> I just sent him a PM in the event he comes around.
[16:14] <Bool> That;s just a throwback to the original NWN2 map
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[16:15] * cipher|WD-01 sets mode: +v Inaubryn
[16:15] <Bool> I messaged Fionn to join - seems to be afk right now
[16:16] <cipher> Moonsea - 06
[16:16] <cipher> (Blackwill is AFK too)
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[16:16] <cipher> The Savage Frontier - 03
[16:16] <cipher> The Far North - 02
[16:16] <Bool> me
[16:17] <cipher> er sorry
[16:17] <cipher> Ok, attendance is fairly good. Glad you all made it.
[16:18] <Blackwill> actively here
[16:19] <cipher> Inaub, Blackwill - can you tell us what role, if any, you have on your respective server teams?
[16:19] <Blackwill> HDM - Builder, coordinator, writer, and maybe even DM
[16:20] <cipher> Inaubryn?
[16:20] <cipher> Let's catch up with Inaub when he gets back.
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[16:21] <cipher> The agenda is here, in case anyone wishes to reference is during this meeting: http://www.alandfaraway.org/phpbbforum/ ... hp?t=33286
[16:21] <cipher> First item - scripts
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[16:22] <HEEGZ> before we start, is there some format we following for comments? or just speak up as needed?
[16:22] <cipher> Our current to do list is posted here: http://www.alandfaraway.org/phpbbforum/ ... hp?t=29392
[16:22] * darrenhfx is now known as Dhfx-TCL
[16:22] <cipher> Speak up as needed. If it gets unmanageable, we'll adjust.
[16:23] <Ronan> The ABR has priority over finished scripts.
[16:23] <Ronan> The reason is, we can have script calls in place and build with them, without the scripts needing to work yet.
[16:23] <spiderjones> I suppose that'd include any discussion about the DM wands and suchs?
[16:24] <HEEGZ> OAS will be using the DMFI wands
[16:24] <spiderjones> I'd like to make use of the DMFIs tools this time around for ALFA live as well.
[16:24] <HEEGZ> OAS Beta should be up by Dec. 31 for Tech to test them out for ALFA implementation
[16:24] <cipher> Other than you, do we have anyone working on both?
[16:24] <Ronan> Yes, DMFI tools will be used.
[16:24] <Ronan> Unless a better solution is presented.
[16:24] <Blackwill> yes DMFI tools please
[16:24] <spiderjones> As they also produce training material, and if we had used it in NWN, we could have DMs run through their training mod as a technical aspect of DM 101.
[16:25] <spiderjones> :F
[16:25] <Ronan> On both scripts and the ABR? No.
[16:26] <cipher> Ok, then there's no priority conflict. But I'd like to talk about the status of the items on the list.
[16:26] <cipher> And also see if we need to change anything that's up there.
[16:27] <Ronan> Hialmar is no longer helping with the ACR,
[16:27] <spiderjones> Need more coders. ;I
[16:27] <cipher> So is the status of seamless AT unknown?
[16:27] <Ronan> so I expect we'll be pulling a seamless AT system from the vault.
[16:28] <Ronan> Thats no big deal, its relatively simple.
[16:28] <Ronan> and dynamic areas are no longer something that looks like we'll be using.
[16:28] <Blackwill> spider -> Thangorn could help, if he knows what needs to be done, or open to him
[16:29] <Ronan> PC Death/KO has some animation bugginess in 1.03 currently, I'd put that off until later.
[16:29] <Ronan> Ariak is MIA on portalling.
[16:29] <spiderjones> Well, talk to Thangorn, Ronan. :F
[16:29] <Blackwill>
[16:29] <spiderjones> Might be helpin'.
[16:30] <Ronan> Thang is currently doing traps, and I guess I lied, because traps take scripting.
[16:30] <cipher> I'll pencil in Thangorn on the seamless AT and we'll see if he's interested in picking that up.
[16:30] <Ronan> I have no problem using a vault seamless system.
[16:31] <Ronan> We'd only want a few small alterations, I was thinking of adding something to keep PCs from ATing at the same time and missing each other.
[16:32] <cipher> there will more than likely be some work required to fit it into our architecture
[16:32] <spiderjones> That'd be a nice check. :p
[16:32] <HEEGZ> make sure that works for DMs to if implemented
[16:32] * HEEGZ hates that. *
[16:32] <Ronan> Yes, but minor stuff.
[16:33] <HEEGZ> yup
[16:33] <Ronan> The lack of a function to retrieve area size in NWN2 will hurt us, though.
[16:34] <Ronan> Spawn System, I plan to tackle that after the ABR gets its own momentum
[16:34] <cipher> To what extent are we trying to develop a full package that can be imported into a module as a holistic system?
[16:34] <Ronan> I've dodged most family things this x-mas break, and should be able to get at least a beta of it up.
[16:35] <Ronan> To a great extent, most of it will be in haks, though.
[16:35] <Blackwill> We adore your sacrifices of happyness
[16:35] <Ronan> Configuration files will be imported, files the builders are expected to change to suit themselves.
[16:36] <Ronan> I hate christmas, bah humbug
[16:36] <Blackwill> hehehe
[16:36] <cipher> I'm asking because that needs to be a consideration for whether we build it or import it.
[16:36] <Ronan> not sure I follow?
[16:38] <Ronan> Even if we use vault content, it will all be in the ACR hak.
[16:39] <cipher> If we're going to publish an ACR and we intend for it to be the equivalent of an HCR package, the question is, can we really rely on scripts developed by other groups? I think it would necessitate some collaboration.
[16:39] <Ronan> For simple things like seamless ATs and p-storage, I don't think so.
[16:40] <Ronan> And even more complex things: Look at AJAI
[16:40] <Ronan> And NESS, which ALFA uses now.
[16:41] <cipher> My concern though is that the pieces won't work properly together.
[16:41] <Inaubryn> Sorry. Guys. Rewritin' a effin' paper for school.
[16:41] <cipher> The larger and more complex the system, the worse it gets, I agree.
[16:41] <Ronan> They may take some alteration, a call to ACR_OnAreaTransition() in the case of the seamless AT scripts,
[16:41] <Ronan> but we may not have a choice.
[16:42] <Ronan> Sorry, they will take some alteration.
[16:42] <cipher> Ok. We'll just have to play it by ear and see what's available/possible.
[16:43] <cipher> PC Death - I've been working on that.
[16:43] <cipher> I've finished *an* implementation, but have not yet tested it.
[16:43] <Ronan> Have you been talking to Sanderman about his problems?
[16:44] <cipher> I'm also on the hook for bleeding but haven't considered that yet. I spoke with Sandman briefly. He offered to share his scripts, though it's a little late for that. But I'd like to approach him about other things as yet unwritten. I'm not aware of what problems he's having.
[16:45] <spiderjones> Let's have a system that allows PCs to make heal checks on dying characters to stabilize them without needing any special items this time? ;f
[16:45] <Ronan> yea
[16:45] <Ronan> we plan to.
[16:45] <Ronan> Sand's problem was hurting the PC broke its animation and made it sit up, so he was tracking bleeding with variables. I don't consider that a reasonable approach
[16:45] <Ronan> in the long-term, and would prefer to wait and see what OE fixes.
[16:45] <cipher> for those of you who are not acquainted with things, tech specs for the features are in the tech forum here: http://www.alandfaraway.org/phpbbforum/ ... .php?f=168
[16:46] <spiderjones> Thanks, cipher. :p
[16:47] <cipher> SO that's yet another loose end. I'm in favor of taking advantage of his work though, if he's willing to share or work in tandem.
[16:47] * cipher|WD-01 sets mode: +v Dhfx-TCL
[16:48] <cipher> Alright, I'll put that on my todo and catch Sandman for a chat when I see him.
[16:48] <Ronan> He is
[16:49] <Ronan> Currency could technically be tested, though custom TLKs don't work so my pricing item properties don't show up.
[16:49] <cipher> Have you been working on a system?
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[16:50] <Ronan> no, only very roughly
[16:50] <cipher> You've noted it as a critical system. Is this something we must have for LIVE?
[16:50] <Ronan> Yes.
[16:50] <Ronan> It must be in place for live.
[16:51] <Ronan> (in order to prevent re-tooling of items)
[16:51] <Ronan> Leareth got the icons, the 2da entries are done, so only the scripts remain.
[16:52] <HEEGZ> is the currency system 100% going to be implemented?
[16:52] <HEEGZ> haven't read that thread in a few months sorry
[16:52] <Ronan> Some of the exploits which would break currency systems in NWN1 don't seem to be in NWN2.
[16:52] <Ronan> yeah, you can count on it HEEGZ.
[16:52] <HEEGZ> ok
[16:52] <HEEGZ> that is the plat, gold, silv, coppers right/
[16:52] <HEEGZ> ?
[16:52] <Ronan> yes
[16:53] <Bool> does electrum not exist these days?
[16:53] <Ronan> Nope, it seems to have been phased out with 3.0
[16:53] <cipher> Not in 3rd ed.
[16:53] * HEEGZ puts up a poll for Electrum. *
[16:53] <spiderjones> Been mostly phased out, yea. :p
[16:53] <spiderjones> But I still use it in PnP.
[16:54] <Ronan> We should be able to allow custom coinage as well
[16:54] <spiderjones> Along with other weird Realms coins
[16:54] <spiderjones> Yea, that'd be nice :F
[16:54] <Ronan> items created with non-standard prices, salable as other coins.
[16:54] * Ronan|alfatech sets mode: +v Leareth
[16:54] <Leareth> thank you
[16:54] <Blackwill> yes please, I'd love custom coinage
[16:55] <Ronan> If you want some location-specific coins, we should probably get icons for them.
[16:55] <Leareth> we have icon makers so we can make custom icons
[16:55] <Blackwill> especially in the Moonsea situation, our Zhentil Keep coinage isn't worth squat outside the Keep
[16:55] <HEEGZ> hmmm, this going to be more complex than i realized
[16:55] <Blackwill> something I'd like to abuse players for
[16:55] <Blackwill> it will be
[16:55] <Ronan> Well, we don't have anything planned which will keep certain coins only usable in certain places.
[16:56] <Blackwill> especially making certain coins unacceptable in certain alfa regions
[16:56] <HEEGZ> :p
[16:56] <spiderjones> How does the system interact with merchants exactly?
[16:56] <spiderjones> If you sell somethin' worth 556 gp, will they give you five platinums by default and 56 gp? :f
[16:56] <Blackwill> I could have Thangs or Baal do the reverse, and make it so only the custom Zhent coins can be used in Zhent territory though
[16:56] <spiderjones> Or just 556 gp?
[16:56] <Ronan> The system basically keeps the PC's "gold" level at the value of the coins he is carying
[16:56] <Ronan> that is what I haven't finished or decided.
[16:57] <Blackwill> will the coins be in items?
[16:57] <Ronan> yes, normal items, weighing 1/50 of a pound each
[16:57] <Ronan> placeable in bags of holding, etc
[16:58] <Rotku> very stackable?
[16:58] <Ronan> yes
[16:58] <cipher> I've actually written a fair number of scripts on this subject prior to ALFA. One of them did just that spider - merchants do the conversion taking up the smallest currency first and making change efficiently as well. Depending on your design decisions, Ronan, feel free to look at these if you wish.
[16:58] <spiderjones> Can you read the large numbers is huge stacks easily in yer inventory? :F
[16:58] <Ronan> Hmm, a good question
[16:58] <Ronan> I don't know
[16:59] <Blackwill> Is there a litmit on carrying capacity, and stackability?
[16:59] <Ronan> as I said, its really rough now.
[16:59] <Ronan> Hopefully not.
[16:59] <Ronan> I can say there WILL be a system.
[16:59] <Ronan> It may not be like I am describing, but there will be one
[17:00] <cipher> Ok. Let's talk about the must haves.
[17:00] <Leareth> mater of what we can get to work etc?
[17:01] <cipher> The script hooks are pretty straightforward and mostly done, I believe.
[17:01] <Ronan> yeah, Leareth.
[17:01] <Ronan> And yeah, they are. Though again, they can be in place without the scripts being there.
[17:02] * cipher|WD-01 sets mode: +v KalevD
[17:02] <cipher> Noted.
[17:02] <cipher> What are the config files?
[17:02] <cipher> 2nd item on the list.
[17:02] <Ronan> Any file named acf_, for ALFA Configuration File
[17:03] <Ronan> Its basically a script builders are expected to change, if they need to
[17:03] <Ronan> these will never be altered by us
[17:03] <Ronan> so no server's work will ever be overwritten.
[17:03] <Ronan> They tend to be scripts with options to set one way or another, or a simple event handler with one function call
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[17:04] <cipher> These are the script event files themselves, first item in the list. Or did I misunderstand?
[17:05] <cipher> Just thinking of merging the two tasks into one.
[17:05] * Blackwill is now known as Blackwill|MS-06
[17:05] <Ronan> yeah, they could be merged
[17:05] <Ronan> should be, even
[17:05] * Ronan|alfatech sets mode: +v paazin
[17:06] * KalevD is now known as KalevD|Busy
[17:06] <cipher> Ok. Next item, the custom events framework. Is that still on ice?
[17:07] <Ronan> No. Its been partially resurected to serve as item scripts.
[17:07] <Ronan> Due to some "features" of both NWN1 and 2, it will not be able to function how I first thought.
[17:08] <Ronan> However, preliminary functionality as I outlined in the item scripting thread can be expected, and its still much more flexible and powerful than anything we have now.
[17:08] <Ronan> Here: http://www.alandfaraway.org/phpbbforum/ ... hp?t=33246
[17:09] <cipher> Ok. Got it.
[17:09] <cipher> These are all standalone scripts so they can be created as needed for the content we create, right?
[17:10] <Ronan> And I appologize if I'm going slowly, but I haven't slept in 2 days, had a big final today.
[17:10] <Ronan> Yes, they are.
[17:10] <cipher> Ok. Now quit slacking, will you?
[17:10] <Leareth> O.o
[17:10] <cipher>
[17:10] <Ronan> Its my hope builders will submit MANY custom scripts to the haks.
[17:11] <cipher> Ronan, I think you're the hardest working ALFAn...so please don't apologize.
[17:11] <Leareth> and get some sleep please
[17:11] <cipher> This is probably a question for Rusty, but are we working on any global item scripts atm?
[17:12] <Ronan> I'd even like things like custom one-off magic items to be added, if we get a good system in place for builders to do so.
[17:12] <Ronan> No one is that I know of, but I've opened the door to server-team submitions for them.
[17:12] <Ronan> I don't yet have the ACR hak out which contains the needed acr_events_i include file, though.
[17:12] <cipher> I created a "medicine" bag script to work with the rest system API (so healing could be applied on successful rest)
[17:13] <cipher> that's one I suppose
[17:13] * Ronan|alfatech was working on trying to get 2das working before he realized TLKs are still broken in 1.03.
[17:13] <spiderjones> Blargh.
[17:14] <cipher> Meaning, we can't create custom 2da entries?
[17:14] <paazin> custom TLKs still don't function?
[17:14] <Ronan> Well we can, but only if they have a name which references the default dialog.tlk
[17:14] <Ronan> or we overwrite dialog.tlk
[17:14] <Ronan> yeah paazin, a lot of stuff still doesn't function.
[17:15] <cipher> Ok, so a rather limited customization capability atm. Why is that affecting item scripts? Or do you mean it's holding up item creation (properties)?
[17:15] * paazin will get caught up on the nwn2 forum
[17:15] <Ronan> Its not, I was just waiting to release the hak
[17:15] <Ronan> The ACR hak will contain both scripts and 2das
[17:17] <cipher> Do haks officially work? I was talking to Sandmann and he said they did, despite not being advertised as such.
[17:17] <Ronan> As far as I can tell, yes, they work for me.
[17:18] <Ronan> An error pops up when adding one, but I ignored it and they seem to work.
[17:18] <Ronan> Again, NWN2 has a ways yet to go
[17:19] <cipher> And as it turns out, so do we.
[17:19] <cipher>
[17:19] <KalevD> Out of curiosity, are there any plans to carry over the music haks from ALFA1 to ALFA2? Or will they need to be reviewed and changed to another format first before they can be used?
[17:19] <Ronan> GF has offered to handle that himself.
[17:19] <Ronan> He has pretty good taste, so I'm confident we'll end up with something good
[17:20] <Ronan> There is such a thing as too many tracks, of course.
[17:20] <Ronan> I believe he did plan on carying over much of our current popular music
[17:20] <cipher> I've no opinion on that to be honest. I trust GF.
[17:20] <KalevD> True, but I liked most of the ones that were ripped from past FR/Black Isle games like Baldurs Gate series and Torment.
[17:21] <KalevD> That's good to hear, thanks guys
[17:21] <cipher> There are some good ones on the vault too...
[17:21] <Ronan> And we can be sure GF will keep those, as he's a huge BI fan.
[17:21] <spiderjones> We definetly want to aim for smaller downloads as far as custom stuff... And can lose a track or two, like urbanmix. ;p
[17:22] <Leareth> can we add the oblivion tracks?
[17:22] <KalevD> Heh, good. They may still need to be reviewed though, I recall coming across a couple of the music hak files that played fine in Media Player but would not play in NWN for whatever reasons.
[17:22] * Ronan|alfatech nods.
[17:22] <cipher> I'd say direct your requests to GF and grease his palms a bit if you think he's leaning towards cutting out your fav tracks.
[17:23] <HEEGZ> Just PM your requests to GF yeah :p
[17:23] <KalevD> Oblivion track would be good,
[17:23] <Ronan> GF /loves/ PMs.
[17:23] <Leareth> kk
[17:23] <Ronan> I suggest PMing him. A lot.
[17:23] <KalevD> lol
[17:23] <HEEGZ> yeah, seperate PM for each source game/movie.
[17:23] <KalevD> understood
[17:23] <HEEGZ> next
[17:23] <cipher> Next wealth/xp scripts
[17:23] <cipher> Nothing doing as far as I know.
[17:24] <Ronan> unfortunately with ATD in law school, its stalled, yeah.
[17:24] <Ronan> Loot I plan to tackle after the spawn system.
[17:25] <Ronan> The XP scripts are pretty simple though, and I think we made good headway with the math behind them.
[17:26] <Ronan> the actual wealth guidelines I have done, though I haven't tested them. They are pretty simple.
[17:26] <Ronan> I've got them caching creature wealth with their resrefs - not sure if that is really working
[17:26] <cipher> Ok. Good to know. Marking you down for that, unless someone else has an interest in hurting their brain.
[17:26] <KalevD> I guess trusting DMs to keep an eye on this sort of thing is not an option?
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[17:26] <Leareth> initialy we might have to
[17:26] <Ronan> Thats most what its for.
[17:27] <KalevD> Ah
[17:27] <Ronan> Well, to enable the wealth tools and things to work, make things easier for DMs.
[17:27] <Ronan> In terms of monster drops, I'd rather builders just didn't have to worry about it honestly.
[17:27] * AcadiusLost|work is now known as AcadiusLost|AFK
[17:27] <cipher> I agree.
[17:28] <Ronan> We burned out static-makers in ALFA1 with too many requests for standards, I don't want to repeat that mistake
[17:28] <Ronan> ALFA is seriously lacking static content, and I want it to be as easy as possible for builders to add static content which is set up to our standards.
[17:29] <Ronan> Plus, if the standards change, we change 1 script
[17:29] <Ronan> Way easier than altering each individual creature.
[17:29] <KalevD> Would this mean designing our own plugins for NWN2?
[17:29] <KalevD> Wizards and the like, that is
[17:30] <Ronan> hmm, thats actually an idea.
[17:30] <cipher> Yeah, it's a good thought.
[17:30] <Ronan> While I do have my own plugins for ABR creation, the loot stuff I was going to have generated by in-game script.
[17:30] <cipher> content creation plugins could handle the script assignments to ensure nothing falls through the gaps.
[17:31] * Ronan|alfatech nods.
[17:31] <Ronan> I hope testing comes up with things like that, I just need to get some other folks learning C#
[17:31] <Ronan> Its easier than nwscript... sorta.
[17:31] <KalevD> Well, perhaps once we get things truly rolloing we could release some ALFA-made or ALFA-approved plugins for builders to use? It wouldn't be anything the general community would need per se.
[17:32] <HEEGZ> was there going to be generic statics for teams to customize for their server?
[17:32] <KalevD> *rolling
[17:32] <paazin> Well, most of that crud with C# would be rather similar
[17:32] <Ronan> I hope to, but honestly, I'm absolutely horrid coding anything with a user-interface.
[17:32] <Ronan> GUIs give me nightmares.
[17:32] <cipher> Heegz, I suspect so
[17:32] <KalevD> Heh, fair enough
[17:32] <Ronan> At least Swing does, I haven't used .NET's API
[17:33] <HEEGZ> btw, DMFI has a nice UI for players
[17:33] <Bool> My ALFABuilder plugin was just waiting on final info from the tech team, and it was going to insert the relevant scripts
[17:33] <Ronan> ahh, nice
[17:33] <Ronan> what were you waiting on?
[17:33] <cipher> what's the hold up Bool?
[17:33] <paazin> Ronan - Swing is entirely different from .NET's gui designing.
[17:33] <paazin> .NET has you select objects and paint them on the screen :p
[17:33] <Ronan> oh, good.
[17:34] <Bool> just the "final" list of Event->script list for all the different object types
[17:34] <paazin> No weirdo arrays of controls and other things.
[17:34] <Ronan> I am increasing the length of the names to utilize the 32-byte long filenames now, though.
[17:34] <Ronan> oh ok
[17:34] <Bool> (a lot of it is hidden away in wiki articles)
[17:34] <Ronan> I'll get that to you
[17:34] <cipher> Should be easy enough.
[17:35] <Bool> oh and also,
[17:35] <Bool> all the Variables to be set on them
[17:35] <Bool> that was the main one
[17:35] * Ronan|alfatech nods
[17:35] <Ronan> we are still adding some from time to time
[17:35] <spiderjones> Dunno if we want to use the language stuff as is in ALFA though, HEEGZ.
[17:35] <spiderjones> On the DMFI tools.
[17:36] <HEEGZ> ok
[17:36] <spiderjones> ALFA has been against adding the gibberish spewin' language system before.
[17:36] <HEEGZ> well the OAS going to be testing DMFI in about 3 weeks
[17:36] <HEEGZ> if anyone interested
[17:36] <Rotku> or as soon as we can get someone to host, I guess
[17:37] <cipher> should we also enforce naming conventions via the plugin?
[17:38] <cipher> do we need servers to be alfa compliant in that respect?
[17:38] <Leareth> can we?
[17:38] <Ronan> As far as I'm concerned, our naming convention will be simple:
[17:38] * HEEGZ praises the heavens. *
[17:38] <Ronan> Builders shouldn't make any script, variable, database, or blueprint resref which begins with the letter a
[17:38] <cipher> that's a question I was going to ask when talking about content
[17:39] <Ronan> Now, ABR stuff has complex conventions of course.
[17:39] <cipher> well the problem I see is that if we intent to graduate server level content into ALFA level content
[17:39] <cipher> conventions need to be adhered to
[17:39] <Ronan> And builders could certainly duplicate those if they wished, but I don't think its realistic to ask them to do so.
[17:39] <Ronan> yea, all of the ABR-submition threads and wikis explain the needed conventions.
[17:39] <cipher> Which is precisely where the plugin comes in
[17:40] <cipher> If you create content with an ALFA plugin, should it be automagically compliant with conventions?
[17:40] <Ronan> It would be nice, but I don't think its critical
[17:40] <Ronan> as we can easily alter resrefs now.
[17:40] <Ronan> unlike NWN1...
[17:41] <cipher> That's true. It's easier but rework is still a bitch.
[17:42] <cipher> Bool, is it possible to add this as a feature and do any of you folks on server teams care one way or the other?
[17:42] <Bool> what is it specifically?
[17:43] <cipher> You mean what are the conventions?
[17:43] <Bool> I mean what has to be done?
[17:44] <Leareth> you mean naming convections?
[17:44] <HEEGZ> well, i'd like items to clearly show which server they originate from at the least
[17:44] <Leareth> conventions*
[17:44] <HEEGZ> the three digit server and DM worked well IMO
[17:44] <HEEGZ> 051_hgz_itemname
[17:44] <HEEGZ> for the rest i don't care
[17:44] <Leareth> I agree can we use that still for custome items?
[17:44] <Ronan> HEEGZ, everything should start with the server-number, or ABR
[17:44] <cipher> Ensure server side content follows the conventions we use for naming content (items, creatures, placeables, etc).
[17:44] <HEEGZ> yeah, i don't see compliance being an issue then
[17:45] <Ronan> ie, 052_cr_goblin_creeper, or ABR_cr_goblin_creeper
[17:45] <Bool> just altering the naming conventions for all custom made stuff? Yes
[17:46] <Bool> yeh? If you mean something else by compliancy, you might have to elaborate
[17:47] <spiderjones> Hmm...
[17:47] <Ronan> pretty sure thats what he ment.
[17:47] <cipher> Yep, that's it.
[17:47] <KalevD> Would this be just for the resrefs or would it be used for tags and resource names?
[17:47] <Ronan> resrefs and resource names.
[17:47] <cipher> resrefs at a minimum
[17:47] <KalevD> *resource names as well?
[17:47] <Ronan> yes
[17:48] <cipher> names are not restricted in any way
[17:48] <KalevD> ok, but not tags?
[17:48] <cipher> tags - possible depending on the object type
[17:48] <KalevD> Ah
[17:48] <cipher> I think that's a grey area
[17:48] <cipher> it depends if scripted systems use tags
[17:48] <KalevD> *sigh* I have some items to edit then....
[17:49] <cipher> our preference is to rely on local vars though
[17:49] <KalevD> They do for doors, I can confirm tha
[17:49] <KalevD> *that
[17:49] <Ronan> server-team compliance with naming conventions really isn't required.
[17:50] <Leareth> that's more the servers problem
[17:50] <Ronan> As long as there aren't any naming conflicts with ACR/ABR stuff...
[17:50] <Ronan> Yeah.
[17:51] <Ronan> ok whats next?
[17:51] <cipher> It always starts out as the servers problem...not sure it stops there however.
[17:51] <KalevD> All right
[17:51] <cipher> Anyway, next is doors. Looks like that's done.
[17:51] <Rotku> just a quick question: which item on the agenda are we up to? I've lost my place
[17:51] <Rotku> global content?
[17:51] <HEEGZ> to summarize, don't begin any naming convention with "a" ?
[17:51] <cipher> Almost there Rotku.
[17:51] <Ronan> yes, HEEGZ
[17:51] <Rotku> cheers
[17:51] <HEEGZ> ok, thanks
[17:51] <Ronan> that will ensure no naming conflicts occur
[17:52] <cipher> begin all resrefs with server #
[17:52] <KalevD> Sorry, just for final clairification, does the Resource Name text field have any bearing in the same way resrefs and tags do?
[17:52] <cipher>
[17:52] <Ronan> KalevD|Busy, I'm not sure
[17:52] <Ronan> there is talk about resource names being used on CreateOBject() calls
[17:52] <Ronan> but those broke in 1.03 I've read
[17:53] <KalevD> Ah, I see. Well, for safety sake then I might as well have my custom items have the same resref/tag/resource name then.
[17:53] <KalevD> Thanks Ronan
[17:53] <Ronan> yea, keep resref and resource name the same
[17:54] <cipher> has anyone researched resource names though? I wonder if the intention behind this was to allow the creation of "prefabs" via scripts?
[17:55] <Ronan> I haven't since the beta toolset cipher, when I wasn't able to find anything out
[17:55] <KalevD> Hmm, odd
[17:56] <cipher> ok, it's an open question. maybe a search on the nwn2 forums might be fruitful.
[17:56] <cipher> let's move along though.
[17:56] <KalevD> Fair enough, next point of order.
[17:56] <HEEGZ> (is PWC upload on the agenda at some point?)
[17:56] <cipher> Persistent placeables. You've marked yourself down for that Ronan.
[17:56] <Ronan> Yes: Community Content for that, HEEGZ.
[17:56] <HEEGZ> ok
[17:56] <Ronan> I did? ;O
[17:57] <Ronan> ah
[17:57] <KalevD> Persistant placeables? Is that the same thing as persistant storage?
[17:57] <Ronan> Placeable scripts work, though not the persistance or moveable parts of them.
[17:57] <cipher> Yeah, you signed your name up there. In blood too.
[17:57] <Ronan> more like persistantly placed placeables
[17:57] <cipher> No Kalev
[17:57] <Ronan> I haven't started on the movement scripts yet
[17:57] <cipher> These are placeables that can be moved around but would persistent across resets
[17:57] <Ronan> ie, picking up chairs and moving them.
[17:58] <Ronan> (most won't persist across resets)
[17:58] <Leareth> furnature you can buy and move?
[17:58] <Ronan> yes
[17:58] <KalevD> ...doesn't that go without saying? I mean, unless you make changes in the toolset, why would a placeable change its orientation without direct interaction in which case it is intentional?
[17:58] <Ronan> mostly used for bar stools, I'd imagine.
[17:58] <KalevD> Oh, I see, never mind
[17:58] <KalevD> I misunderstood
[17:58] <Leareth> that'd be awsome...
[17:59] <Ronan> Its my hope that everything which should be moveable, will be.
[17:59] <cipher> Would it be fair to say that the persistence is predominently for furniture?
[17:59] <cipher> Player housing to be specific.
[17:59] <Ronan> yea
[17:59] <Ronan> so its lower on the agenda
[17:59] <Ronan> and because really, I expect most PCs to toolset their homes
[17:59] <Ronan> and get the area imported.
[17:59] <KalevD> I'm guessing this would work by having the item transfer from an in-game placeable to an item in the PC's inventory with some hefty scripting behind it?
[17:59] <Ronan> yes
[18:00] <cipher> Yeah, that's fine. I think movement is the priority, persistence would just be a bit of icing.
[18:00] <KalevD> Nice
[18:00] <Ronan> I'd planned to make it an equipable item with some sort of generic appearance, a sack maybe
[18:00] <Ronan> two-hander
[18:00] <Bool> As i understand it, moving placeables is a little tricky for the NWN2 engine (ie. repainting them at the new location)
[18:00] <Ronan> they have to have dynamic collisions
[18:00] <Bool> Sandermann was saying something about it the other day
[18:00] <Ronan> not be baked in, etc
[18:01] <Bool> it was more than that
[18:01] <cipher> Yeah, otherwise you'd leave a hole in the walkmesh.
[18:01] <Ronan> anyways, if the sack is dropped or unequiped, the placeable is dropped, so no combat, etc
[18:01] <Ronan> It was?
[18:01] <Ronan> hmm
[18:01] <Ronan> I'd used CreateObject on them without problems
[18:01] <KalevD> hmm, good point, baking would be a considerable obstacle in this case then.
[18:02] <Ronan> I'll ask him
[18:02] <Ronan> he's done more work in nwn2 than I have.
[18:02] <cipher> Anything else on that?
[18:02] <Ronan> don't think so
[18:02] <cipher> Ok. Last two.
[18:02] <Ronan> traps - Thang is doing those.
[18:03] <cipher> Traps?
[18:03] <cipher> Ok I guess I heard you right.
[18:03] * Leareth has quit IRC (Quit: SorceryNet CGI:IRC (EOF))
[18:03] <cipher> Reputation - baalster seemed to want to do this but I haven't seen much of him.
[18:03] <Ronan> me either
[18:03] <Ronan> and with the distance between our server regions, I wonder how applicable it is
[18:04] <spiderjones> Well...
[18:04] <Ronan> or, well, his global ideas
[18:04] <cipher> I may need to be bumped down to "wanted' rather than "must have"
[18:04] <Ronan> the persistance I think is a must
[18:04] <spiderjones> There are global factions. :F
[18:04] <spiderjones> Like churches.
[18:04] <Ronan> yeah, but unless you flash your harper pin everywhere...
[18:04] <Ronan> who'll know?
[18:04] <spiderjones> We've got more than a few servers with Zhentarim.
[18:04] <spiderjones> On our starting list. :F
[18:04] <cipher> depends on what you enlist for on a specific server
[18:04] <KalevD> Can we make our own faction feats similar to those used in the NWN2 campaign?
[18:05] <Ronan> you could, KalevD|Busy
[18:05] <Ronan> or we could,rather.
[18:05] <spiderjones> Those would be handy.
[18:05] <spiderjones> Can check for them on conversations and suchs.
[18:06] <Ronan> that would be handy, because a DM could see it looking at the PC's char sheet
[18:06] <Ronan> ie "harper" or "Zhent spy", etc
[18:06] <KalevD> The only problem I could forsee in that though is having them carry over to other servers. The only way to avoid this IMO would be for all servers to share their factions and make sure global factions - like the Harpers - have the same information script behind them so they do not double up in the PC's character sheet.
[18:06] <cipher> I talked to baalster once NWN2 was released
[18:07] * Dhfx-TCL is now known as D-afk
[18:07] <cipher> from what I understood, his scripts could be used as is, though he said they did need to be "release" worthy
[18:07] <D> brb I am following along by th way
[18:07] <Ronan> by default the scripts should only persist on each individual server
[18:08] <Ronan> which I think is as it should be, a harper in a new town needs to make new contacts, etc
[18:08] <spiderjones> Well, for the global factions it wouldn't be too hard to do those feats...
[18:08] <spiderjones> Harpers, Zhents, I guess there'd be a lot of them if we wanted churches ;I
[18:08] <KalevD> Heh, true
[18:08] <Blackwill> don't forget the Cult too
[18:08] <Blackwill>
[18:08] <spiderjones> Right, Cult o' the Dragon
[18:09] <Blackwill> Would love a global faction system though
[18:09] * Blackwill|MS-06 sets mode: +v AcadiusLost|AFK
[18:09] <Ronan> I just don't want to see a harper from Silvermoon show up in ZK and get greeted by a "Get lost harper scum!" convo
[18:09] <cipher> Yeah but if you're a high ranking member of a global faction
[18:09] <KalevD> But it would get considerably more complicated if we had to add in factions for each church of the FR pantheon, or start adding in player-created factions/
[18:09] <cipher> you're going to be known
[18:09] <Blackwill> Ronan: that would be plain stupid from teh coder
[18:09] <Ronan> yes, but it would be the default if we used feats
[18:09] <Ronan> or global faction data
[18:09] <spiderjones> roofl ;I
[18:09] <KalevD> Hmm...
[18:10] <Ronan> Hence, I think server-specific persistance is best in most cases.
[18:10] <KalevD> That may be the way to go then
[18:10] <Blackwill> actually, that would be up to the peeps that scripted the conversations
[18:10] <Blackwill> which I guess would rely on common sense
[18:10] <Ronan> feats are always global
[18:10] <KalevD> Well, should we come up with a list of global factions just the same?
[18:10] <Ronan> the convo scripts could reference a local faction system, yes
[18:10] <Ronan> but that would be more work...
[18:10] <cipher> I think we should
[18:11] <Ronan> I'd prefer just local faction persistance for nwo
[18:11] <Blackwill> but it would be needed ;P
[18:11] <spiderjones> Need icons for those feats.
[18:11] <Ronan> It would be needed?
[18:11] <spiderjones> And all dat.
[18:11] <Blackwill> Well, you know, it would be nice = it would be needed ;P
[18:11] <KalevD> True, but some of them would be easy to find/make like the Harper symbol or the Z emblem of Zhentil Keep
[18:11] <spiderjones> Unless I'm not remembering correctly... I think they have little icons.
[18:12] <Ronan> I don't think there are really many situations where it would be needed, I think local persistance accounts for most all situations.
[18:12] <Ronan> Zhents probably have ranks that should cary over to even those unfamilair to them, right? If so, items may be best for this.
[18:12] <cipher> Well we can't dwell on this here. It's not really a critical system, but it does add a tremendous amount of value to our servers if implemented properly.
[18:12] <Ronan> after all, they'd surely need proof of their station.
[18:13] <Blackwill> I would prefer global, simply to make ALFA more like one world, and not seperate
[18:13] <Blackwill> some plot item could do that i guess
[18:13] <Ronan> global would cause more problems than it would solve, given the distances between our servers though.
[18:13] <spiderjones> Need coordination between servers to set up that sort o' thing.
[18:13] * HEEGZ votes for global DMs. *
[18:13] <Blackwill> Well your the tech minded, so you would know
[18:14] <HEEGZ> so.. this topic exhausted then?
[18:14] <cipher> For now.
[18:14] * Blackwill|MS-06 thinks HEEGZ has a point
[18:14] <Ronan> I'd ment more IC problems, not tech ones.
[18:14] <spiderjones> Next. ;O
[18:14] <Blackwill> IC... hmm?
[18:14] <Blackwill> okay, next :p
[18:14] <cipher> Global content.
[18:14] <Blackwill> items?
[18:14] <HEEGZ> pwc files?
[18:15] <Ronan> ABR stuff.
[18:15] <Blackwill> ah more code
[18:15] <cipher> Doors.
[18:15] <Ronan> Not code.
[18:15] <Ronan> Doors, ugh, I need to get them ready
[18:15] <Blackwill> mmm doors
[18:15] <HEEGZ> is there any word on plans for new monster models?
[18:15] <HEEGZ> i'm dying for yuan-ti and hobgoblins
[18:15] <Ronan> Doors I'm doing myself.
[18:15] <Ronan> Creatures we have open submitions on now.
[18:16] <HEEGZ> i meant from the NWN2 community
[18:16] <spiderjones> We're relying on the community for new models. ;f
[18:16] <KalevD> What needs to be done for doors exactly?
[18:16] <spiderjones> The only model listed for NWN2 on the vault is actually somethin' for NWN. ;p
[18:16] <HEEGZ> i looked last week and didn't see anything, but i'll wait. doors first :p
[18:16] <spiderjones> So, no, nothin' yet.
[18:16] <Ronan> http://www.alandfaraway.org/phpbbforum/ ... hp?t=33024
[18:16] <Ronan> I've got a plug in to generate the door blueprints, but I've been focusing on consumables lately
[18:16] <cipher> Creating them with the proper hitpoints, hardness, and tied to scripted systems
[18:17] <Ronan> I've got hte consumables 95% done, one minor issue with pricing is all thats left
[18:17] <Ronan> about 1200 items
[18:17] <cipher> Will these doors replace the global models in the toolset?
[18:17] <Ronan> No, so far I haven't found a way to do that.
[18:17] <Ronan> I've asked, with no response.
[18:17] <cipher> Ok, well that sux.
[18:18] <cipher> We're all going to have to retrofit the doors in our areas.
[18:18] <Ronan> All ABR content will start with the palette catigory "ALFA"
[18:18] <cipher> And in WD, there are lots of doors. :S
[18:18] <Blackwill> the only model i saw is a whatssit... a wil-o-wisp
[18:18] <Ronan> already?
[18:18] <Ronan> really?
[18:18] <Ronan> I didn't think you guys would have many interriors done
[18:18] <Ronan> thats not a model, just a VFX Blackwill|MS-06.
[18:18] <Blackwill> yes, but its a creature nonetheless
[18:18] <HEEGZ> yeah
[18:18] <Ronan> I don't care about doors marked static obviously
[18:19] <cipher> Buildings all have doors and that's the majority of what WD consists of.
[18:19] <Ronan> static doors can be whatever
[18:19] <cipher> not unless we want to tie in a randomizer
[18:20] <Ronan> hmm?
[18:20] <cipher> that allows all doors to lead to an interior - selected at random from templates.
[18:20] <Ronan> ah
[18:20] <Ronan> house robbery stuff
[18:20] <Ronan> right
[18:20] <Ronan> are you guys doing that?
[18:21] <cipher> the "why doesn't this door lead anywhere" complaint that comes up regularly
[18:21] <Ronan> meh
[18:21] <Ronan> ignore that crap I say
[18:21] <cipher> well I'd like to, as it's really a simple solution
[18:21] <cipher> I can tackle the scripts I suppose
[18:21] <HEEGZ> eh
[18:21] <Ronan> ideally it sounds like it should use a random encounter system
[18:21] <HEEGZ> it is a game?
[18:22] <Blackwill> sooo tired
[18:22] <Blackwill> KalveD... tell me what I missed, I need to catch some 40-winks
[18:22] <Blackwill> laters
[18:22] <HEEGZ> random encounter doors for urban would be a great accomplishment though...
[18:22] * Blackwill|MS-06 has quit IRC (Quit: Oh I hate walkmeshes... they are the bane of my life.)
[18:22] <KalevD> Will do mate, sleep well
[18:22] <HEEGZ> late!
[18:22] <Ronan> anyways...
[18:22] <Ronan> creatures
[18:22] <Rotku> can't a similar system like WDs current one be used?
[18:22] <Ronan> Spider has done trolls.
[18:22] <cipher> he can read the transcript
[18:22] <cipher> in the morning
[18:22] <Rotku> that seemed fairly straight forward
[18:22] <HEEGZ> O.o
[18:23] <Ronan> I'm doing orcs and goblins.
[18:23] <HEEGZ> O.O
[18:23] <Ronan> Halrin is on humans and elves.
[18:23] <HEEGZ> phew
[18:23] <cipher> Rotku?
[18:23] <HEEGZ> he may not be around atm
[18:23] <Ronan> items is the big holdup though, since Rusty's computer is down.
[18:23] <Rotku> (sorry, was still talking about the doors)
[18:23] <HEEGZ> nm
[18:23] <Ronan> and again, custom tlk references....
[18:24] <Ronan> We need those for like, everything.
[18:26] <Ronan> again, plugins are being utilized to generate much of this
[18:26] <cipher> Ok. I'm going to assume that aside from these, nobody on the server teams has developed any content.
[18:26] <Ronan> we've got thousands of items to do, and to be sure they are all priced correctly, plugins may be best.
[18:26] <HEEGZ> i would prefer a plugin myself
[18:26] <HEEGZ> due to multiple builders, etc.
[18:27] <cipher> A plugin would be a time saver, if there's someone who can write one.
[18:27] <Ronan> I'm doing it currently
[18:28] <Ronan> I've hit a snag with pricing, as I said earlier
[18:28] <cipher> For what objects?
[18:28] <Ronan> consumables, weapons, armor and doors
[18:28] <cipher> What's the snag on pricing?
[18:28] <Ronan> the consumables turn out ok, except their pricing is undefinied unless you manually edit their properties
[18:29] <Ronan> some sort of GUI event telling the toolset to re-calc the item price isn't being called when you add an item property
[18:29] <Ronan> and BTW, all item properties in NWN2 ALFA will cost 0 gold
[18:29] <KalevD> Well, I've made a number of items, but they are all specific to a guild so would setting them to stolen work in lieu of price altering?
[18:29] <Ronan> so, prices are all set manually.
[18:29] <Ronan> plot, not stolen, KalevD|Busy.
[18:29] <Ronan> Some things buy stolen goods
[18:30] <KalevD> correction, plot
[18:30] <Ronan> yea, thats fine
[18:30] <KalevD> Ah, very well then
[18:30] <cipher> Ok, how far along are we on creatures?
[18:30] <Ronan> umm
[18:30] <Ronan> We aren't
[18:31] <Ronan> all the ABR threads have links to FTP URL for submitions
[18:31] <Ronan> and creatures is emtpy
[18:32] <cipher> Ok, so spider, you doing trolls?
[18:32] <spiderjones> Well, I wasn't sure I should upload anything since some of the special trolls need special scripts as far as what damages 'em. :F
[18:32] <Ronan> We've got trolls, humans, elves, goblins, ogres and orcs in the works.
[18:32] <spiderjones> I was going to handle anything in the giant category.
[18:32] <spiderjones> Ogres, trolls, et cetera
[18:32] <Inaubryn> I've volunteered to do some creatures.
[18:32] <Inaubryn> I can do humanoids, or aberrations or dragon.
[18:32] <Ronan> spiderjones
[18:33] <cipher> anything specific, Inaubryn?
[18:33] <Ronan> go ahead and upload them
[18:33] <cipher> ok
[18:33] <Ronan> place the stuff that needs special scripts in a different folder marked as such
[18:33] <spiderjones> k :F
[18:33] <spiderjones> Also...
[18:33] <spiderjones> Should we make alternate versions of things as far as equipment, or should we just leave random weaponry and such up to scripts?
[18:34] <Ronan> I don't plan on randomizing gear, no
[18:34] <Ronan> reason being, its all pretty specific to the creature type
[18:34] <Ronan> for example, I have 4 war1 goblins
[18:35] <spiderjones> Alright.
[18:35] <cipher> I'd say create whatever variations are defined in the MM.
[18:35] <Ronan> one with a spear, one with a club, hand axe, quaterstaff
[18:35] <Ronan> Well we want a few more variations than that.
[18:36] <Ronan> not all orcs have falchions, etc
[18:36] <KalevD> Well, with lesser creatures like goblins you don't need much variation. Bandits are of course a diffent matter entirely
[18:36] <Ronan> yes, but even then I like to hand-pick gear
[18:36] <HEEGZ> i prefer each creature have one of each weapon type, including ranged, makes it quicker for DM use IMO
[18:36] <Ronan> for proper damage ranges, etc
[18:37] <Inaubryn> I need to go back and look at the naming convention.
[18:37] <HEEGZ> as opposed to 8 types of goblins...
[18:37] <Inaubryn> Do we name them goblin_archer, goblin_terrorist, goblin_clown and so on?
[18:37] <Ronan> I don't want to see any war1 goblins spawn, for example, with crossbows
[18:37] <Ronan> generally abr_cr_goblin_<class>
[18:37] <Ronan> like
[18:37] <Rotku> with NWN2, is it possible to just have all goblins appearing to players as goblin, instead Goblin Archer, etc?
[18:37] <Ronan> abr_cr_goblin_war1
[18:37] <Ronan> abr_cr_goblin_ftr1
[18:38] <cipher> Do you mean for names Inaubryn?
[18:38] <Inaubryn> I mean as far as what name will show to players.
[18:38] <Inaubryn> Yes.
[18:38] <Ronan> oh
[18:38] <cipher> I prefer just Goblin
[18:38] <Ronan> its all in there, however...
[18:38] <Inaubryn> Me too, Cipher.
[18:38] <cipher> you can put more detail in {} so it shows up to builders
[18:38] <Inaubryn> Right.
[18:38] <Ronan> we have no word on whether or not the { } will be hidden in the final DM client
[18:38] <spiderjones> :I
[18:38] <Ronan> I do NOT want every single goblin named "Goblin"
[18:38] <Inaubryn> And, since we can make them look differently, we can name them just goblin or gorilla, I mean orc.
[18:38] <cipher> but the DM client shows resrefs
[18:38] <cipher> or so I heard
[18:39] <Ronan> err, it does?
[18:39] <spiderjones> Yea, the Chooser shows them in NWN...
[18:39] <Ronan> last I looked I didn't think it did
[18:39] <spiderjones> Dunno about NWN2.
[18:39] <Inaubryn> I can check it out.
[18:39] <spiderjones> Do it. ;o
[18:39] <Ronan> as it says in the wiki, the creature's name should include anything that should be readily apparent to anyone looking at it.
[18:39] <cipher> Big Goblin?
[18:40] <Ronan> ie, a goblin chief looks different from a goblin, etc
[18:40] <Ronan> yeah
[18:40] <Ronan> Goblin commoner = unarmored, goblin warrior, etc
[18:40] <cipher> Leave size out of it though. It's redundant. You can scale creatures in NWN2 as we know.
[18:40] <Ronan> goblin leader has a necklace of skulls, or whatever
[18:40] <Inaubryn> Well, isn't that meta?
[18:40] <KalevD> So, basically the same creature naming conventions used in NWN1?
[18:40] <Inaubryn> We can make the goblin bigger. It's kinda redundant to name it big goblin.
[18:40] <spiderjones> Too bad there are no hobgobs... Large males have blue noses, so we could have Blue Nosed Hob ;(
[18:41] <Ronan> We had conventions in NWN1?
[18:41] <Ronan> Its all in the wiki
[18:41] <Ronan> Inaubryn, we can, but its not always easily seeable in the client
[18:41] <cipher> the question to me is this - would a goblin chief look exactly the same as an ordinary goblin or can we make them look sufficiently unique that meta labels are not necessary?
[18:41] <Ronan> I don't think its meta telling the difference between a canon-fodder goblin and a chieftan, no
[18:41] <Inaubryn> I dunno. I ran into a big ass lizardman in the oC and I could tell he was much bigger than the rest.
[18:42] <KalevD> Ok, lol, not conventions per se. But many servers I've been through named their monsters in the way suggested above, as well as having (ex.) the goblin chief look different than other goblins
[18:42] <Inaubryn> Cipher, I believe so.
[18:42] <Ronan> with spell effects going off, etc...
[18:42] <Ronan> We can, yes.
[18:42] <Ronan> But then the labels aren't meta.
[18:42] <Inaubryn> The chief would be well armored, better weapons, maybe even bigger.
[18:42] <Ronan> ie, I don't want meta labels
[18:42] <Ronan> I want descriptive labels
[18:42] <Inaubryn> Goblin_with_mohawk
[18:43] <Ronan> meh, n/m
[18:43] <Inaubryn> Just messin' with ya, Ro. Breathe, brotha. Breathe.
[18:43] <cipher>
[18:43] <cipher> And it's only a quarter to 7.
[18:44] <Ronan> basically, meta = bad, player dying because he couldn't tell the difference between a 1hd and 7hd goblin = bad
[18:44] <KalevD> 19:44 my time
[18:44] <Ronan> fortunately with things like orcs and goblins, the bigger ones are almost always hte leaders.
[18:44] <cipher> Part of that problem though is the deviation in creature CRs
[18:45] <spiderjones> Orc, Scarred Orc, Hulking Orc, et cetera
[18:45] <cipher> Can we agree on this:
[18:45] <KalevD> Well, we could have certain visual cues like have the size of a goblin chief be 1.5, 1.5, 1.5 for example
[18:46] <cipher> if you can't tell the difference between two creatures with varying CRs, make the name more descriptive.
[18:46] <Ronan> yes, cipher|WD-01.
[18:46] <cipher> Inaubryn?
[18:46] <Inaubryn> huh?
[18:46] <cipher> read the last 4 lines
[18:47] <Ronan> anyways, there is a paragraph on it in the wiki
[18:47] <Ronan> The name the player sees should describe what the player can tell at a glance, but not include information already obvious in the game engine (such as the gender of a human). "Human commoner" is a good name, while "Male human commoner" or just "Human" are not.
[18:47] <Inaubryn> I like what spider said.
[18:47] <Ronan> The game engine cannot show the player everything his PC would be able to see, so providing some hints as to the strength of a monster is necissary, unless there is a clear IC reason why the PC should not be able to tell the difference between a weak creature and a strong one.
[18:47] <Ronan> For example, goblin names could take the form "Goblin warrior", "Goblin sergeant", "Goblin leader", and "Goblin chieftan". It is assumed there would be an obvious difference in size and equipment that would allow a PC to tell these goblins appart.
[18:48] <cipher> If they can't be told apart by visual cues, I agree.
[18:48] <Inaubryn> Lowly footsoldiers wouldn't be well equipped. No metal armor and such.
[18:48] <cipher> NWN2 has many advantages over NWN1 in this respect.
[18:48] <Inaubryn> The higher up you go the better gear they have.
[18:48] <HEEGZ> can we relegate this discussion to a forum thread ?
[18:48] <Inaubryn> True, Ciph.
[18:48] <Inaubryn> Uh... not more forums! No!
[18:48] <cipher> I agree with Heegz. Let's defer. We need to move on.
[18:48] <HEEGZ> this is hour 2.5 or 3...
[18:49] <cipher> Ronan, are you reviewing these blueprints? Do you need help with that?
[18:49] <Ronan> I will be, but haven't gotten any yet.
[18:49] <Inaubryn> oh. This is a formal meeting?
[18:49] <Ronan> Either I or Rusty will do it
[18:49] <Ronan> as frankly I think creature balance is critical, and I don't trust anyone else
[18:50] <HEEGZ> (i'll be posting a log later)
[18:50] <Ronan> well
[18:50] <Ronan> Spider can too
[18:50] <cipher> Ok. Once the blueprints are approved, can you commit to the repository?
[18:50] <spiderjones> ^^;
[18:50] <Ronan> yes
[18:51] <cipher> Ok. Onto placeables. What of Blackwills submission? Rusty said he was going to look at them last Sunday.
[18:51] <cipher> Did you get any word from him before he flatlined?
[18:51] <Ronan> it was a long time ago...
[18:51] <Ronan> iirc I gave blackwill some specs for adding lighting parameters
[18:51] <Ronan> but no, I didn't
[18:52] <Ronan> I'd really like someone else on placeables, I'm not much of a builder myself
[18:52] <cipher> Do you want to defer this to someone else?
[18:52] <cipher> I can review.
[18:52] <Ronan> Been wanting for a while
[18:52] <cipher> Ok, I'll take that responsibility then.
[18:52] <Ronan> k
[18:53] <cipher> Anything more on content?
[18:53] <Ronan> don't think so
[18:53] <cipher> Rotku, you had a question about doors?
[18:53] <Rotku> no, just related to what you guys were talking about before, with randomised doors
[18:54] <Rotku> but that's past now, so carry on
[18:54] * FionnFlux has joined #alfatech
[18:54] <cipher> Ok
[18:54] <cipher> Next item on the agenda
[18:54] <cipher> 2das, haks, GUIs, and misc tech work
[18:54] <Ronan> haks is really all-encompasing,
[18:55] <Ronan> 2das is going along steadily, but again, no TLK
[18:55] <cipher> Do we have a list of these activities anywhere? Can you post or PM them Ronan?
[18:55] <Ronan> I can, yes, though I wasn't planning on any more volunteers than the ones I'd posted
[18:55] <cipher> I noticed Darren completed the skills 2da mods, if they'll hold
[18:55] <Ronan> yup
[18:55] <spiderjones> ;O
[18:55] <KalevD> What GUI work needs to be done?
[18:55] <spiderjones> Should ask Burt
[18:55] <Ronan> still need the class skill 2das
[18:56] <spiderjones> He did all the placeables packs for ALFA this time around.
[18:56] <Ronan> with most of them its easier for me to do them than it is for me to explain to someone else how to
[18:56] <Ronan> I'm planning on putting fluff on the armorrulestats.2da
[18:56] <Ronan> GUIs, ugh, honestly I haven't touched gui scripting
[18:57] <cipher> Ok, it'd be good to have a list so we don't duplicate or lose sight of that work. Community might be interested in knowing what's being added too.
[18:57] <Ronan> I'd like it if someone else would...
[18:57] <HEEGZ> hmm, is this the appropriate time for PWC distribution and a new hakupdater replacement?
[18:57] <cipher> GUIs....
[18:57] <HEEGZ> i believe marklos wanted me to help test something...
[18:57] <Ronan> a lot of it is really really minor
[18:57] <Ronan> I see something, and I change it
[18:57] <cipher> nothing needs to be done
[18:57] <Ronan> dunno if the commnity cares about the weight of shurikens, for example
[18:57] <cipher> but if there's anything people want
[18:57] <cipher> for players
[18:57] <cipher> for dms
[18:57] <cipher> could just be skins
[18:57] <Ronan> PWC distribution will be via community content applications
[18:58] <cipher> an ALFA skin for instance
[18:58] <HEEGZ> okay, and a host for the PWC files?
[18:58] <Ronan> dunno about that yet
[18:58] <HEEGZ> that is server responsibility?
[18:58] <Rotku> how customisible is the GUI?
[18:58] <HEEGZ> ok
[18:58] <Ronan> ask Bool
[18:58] <Ronan> very, Rotku|OAS.
[18:58] <Ronan> We'll customize some of it
[18:58] <Ronan> but again, bugs
[18:58] <Ronan> we can't add skills
[18:58] <Bool> PWC's arnt going to be hosted by ALFA. We should be using NWVault
[18:58] <Ronan> the GUI functions won't take new skill constants
[18:58] <cipher> yes Heegz, PWCs will be server responsibilities
[18:58] <HEEGZ> BTW, should I add hosting the PWC file to the requirements for the OAS host?
[18:58] <Rotku> guess GUI is a low priority, more often than not
[18:59] <HEEGZ> ah, great idea Bool
[18:59] <HEEGZ> I remember the PWC spot now
[18:59] <HEEGZ> how about a spot on the alfa.org main page linking to it?
[18:59] <Bool> I am pretty sure the PWCUpdater tools that we end up using can point to a NWVault location
[18:59] <Bool> yeh
[18:59] <HEEGZ> okay
[18:59] <HEEGZ> that is close enough for me.
[18:59] * cipher|WD-01 sets mode: +v FionnFlux
[19:00] <HEEGZ> btw, the OAS should have a beta version up before Dec. 31
[19:00] <Rotku> if we get a host...
[19:00] <HEEGZ> :p
[19:00] <cipher> Good news/bad news eh?
[19:01] <cipher> Check your xmas stockings
[19:01] <cipher>
[19:01] <cipher> Does anyone have any thoughts on GUIs as we really haven't talked much about this?
[19:01] <KalevD> Well, a beta OAS is better than no OAS
[19:01] <spiderjones> DMFI has its own GUI change stuff.
[19:01] <Ronan> GUIs have tons of potential
[19:02] <HEEGZ> yup
[19:02] <KalevD> I don't know too much about the GUI issue cipher, what needs to be done?
[19:02] <spiderjones> We'd have to work that in somewhere I guess.
[19:02] <Ronan> new actions, tied to scripts, etc
[19:02] <HEEGZ> can we wait on community content there?
[19:02] <HEEGZ> since our resources are low enough as is?
[19:02] <Ronan> for some things probably heegz
[19:02] <HEEGZ> or we have ppl who can do GUI volunteer already?
[19:02] <HEEGZ> xml right?
[19:02] <Ronan> no one has volunteered
[19:02] <Ronan> XML, yeah.
[19:02] <Rotku> yeah, I think GUI can take a very low priority. Although there are some things that would be great
