Turn setback into opportunity like a champ

[Ithildur]

Don't have a lot of time before getting ready for the day so gotta make this very brief...

Smaller numbers, dated platform, etc., yes, it's a reality that make many of us wistfully long for days gone by.

However, there are ways to approach the current situation positively and make the best of things. There are ways to do things you could not do in fact with a larger playerbase, while holding to the best elements of what made ALFA memorable.

Numbers aren't what made it memorable. Most of my favorite moments involved 2-6 players plus a dm, or even simply 2, 3 players. Definitely my favorite moments as DM were with a consistent group of 3-6 folks (though there is one fun memory of a big crawl with a larger ad hocish group).

What's required is a slight paradigm shift, plus consistency from a core small group that are on the same page, and creative enthusiasm. These can synergize and build momentum in an upward spiral, especially if the paradigm shifts to one that can work, and actually work better, with smaller numbers and other current realities that aren't going to change.

Feel free to discuss (or ignore!) Gotta run.

[Xanthea]

Every time someone suggests rule changes to help better support campaign groups there's shrill squealing and nothing gets done.

[Arianna]

Don't have a lot of time before getting ready for the day so gotta make this very brief...

Smaller numbers, dated platform, etc., yes, it's a reality that make many of us wistfully long for days gone by.

However, there are ways to approach the current situation positively and make the best of things. There are ways to do things you could not do in fact with a larger playerbase, while holding to the best elements of what made ALFA memorable.

Numbers aren't what made it memorable. Most of my favorite moments involved 2-6 players plus a dm, or even simply 2, 3 players. Definitely my favorite moments as DM were with a consistent group of 3-6 folks (though there is one fun memory of a big crawl with a larger ad hocish group).

What's required is a slight paradigm shift, plus consistency from a core small group that are on the same page, and creative enthusiasm. These can synergize and build momentum in an upward spiral, especially if the paradigm shifts to one that can work, and actually work better, with smaller numbers and other current realities that aren't going to change.

You elude to vague concepts . . . can you be a bit more specific in your vision here?

[Ithildur]

Been making an attempt at catching up on some relevant threads posted within recent months. Hmm... yikes.

Let me think through some issues before responding and generating yet another thread that goes around in circles before dying out.

[Zelknolf]

Every time someone suggests rule changes to help better support campaign groups there's shrill squealing and nothing gets done.

Of course, you already have all of the tools and rules you need to have campaigns on ALFA modules with the ACR because it's all open source, typical personal computers are more than powerful enough to host, and the overwhelming majority of the difficulty in hosting comes from having a vault and database that's on a different machine than the one we're using. The question is if it's important enough to put in a few hours at the start and fifteen minutes or so per session. If it is, then you're set. Run your campaign on your server, without the burdening implications of a shared setting. You get all the benefits that campaign rules would seek to achieve and more. If it's not worth the work, it's probably not important enough to anyone else.

[Analogkid]

Just log onto MS man....thats all and you'll have fun again

[Dorn]

Look forwards to the suggestions.

We have some of the best tools available to DMs in the nwn2 community on ALFA it's true, and Great contributions by all that step up into staff positions. But need people to use them and not just one or two (arri + ...?).

I will continue to log in and play as much as an active family, high pressure job and needs for non-screen downtime allow. While a common (and reasonable) response to 'log in and play' the reality is with less of us and those remaining having less time as we have 'grown up' in RL, means this response to the challenge of a declining player base will probably not solve it.

I am firmly of the opinion that DMed and small groups/parties is the way forwards. I also believe that with the very low numbers we have, we do not have the capacity to achieve this while keeping the two roles separate and that this is the single biggest opportunity for positive change we have.

If trusted to DM and play I would:
- begin to add story content in the forums rumor threads on a regular basis to enliven the server(s)
- begin dropping story relevant placeables to enliven the server (eg carts and horses, tents etc)
- log in and ad-hoc ~30min sessions DMing PCs on other servers if they were there alone or on (prob char development and story continuation or single encounter action as i'm not a great combat DM)
- on occasion DM my regular group of players on TSM in drought periods (or any other group) to enliven our "story" (this would involve a lot of character development for others rather than combat loot)
- encourage the long-term trusted members who i play with to do the same so i enjoyed things more to!!

But i want to be able to play my PCs across ALFA. It's what I enjoy. This has led me to resign from DMing every time i've started (and i think it's the same for several other long term ALFAns) So wont do the things above and our group will remain static-focused instead of a taking part in a persistent world.

I remember some old DnDers i knew who used to take turns DMing each week in the same campaign. Figure if they could do it so can we. BGTSCC does it and a number of other places do it.

I still love alfa and will stay playing till it closes irrespective of changes or not, but i think this is something we are going to have to do.

I totally understand and appreciate the opposite opinion, and i would prefer not having Dm-where-you-play so you dont need to convinve me of it's merits. I just think it's the lesser of two evils (the greater evil being another year of little 'RP story' in our 'RP story persistent world' and continued slow decline)

How bout the DMA consider a 3 month trial on TSM where 2 or 3 of us are allowed to DM where we play? At the end of the 3 months you can revoke the permission, check the logs and consider the policy. Better to have tried and failed than never tried at all!

[Zelknolf]

We tried and failed first.

And we tried and failed again some years later.

We always, always, always try Wheaton's Law first. Nobody likes writing rules; nobody likes enforcing rules; nobody likes the fallout after enforcing a rule. The problem is that no two humans agree about what, precisely, counts as "being a dick," and so we have to codify things to give a common ground to play on, but we only do that when we have a concrete problem from actual actions of actual people that needs addressing.


Of course, we do provide for the rotating DM group-- either by having one player step down a when another steps up or by having the group migrate between servers where other people are DMs. One might note that this is more or less what the DMG suggests for the rotating group-- DMs shouldn't have a PC while they're DMing, and if DMing rotates, those PCs should be backgrounded or played by a different player until the DM is done DMing.

But if you just like the option of roaming absolutely every server all the time more, we also provide for a middle ground between being a DM and being a player, which is in building content.

If you're not willing or able to learn a new thing to get play time to players, we also provide a middle ground between that and being a player, which is in organizing non-DMed groups focused on doing static content or exploring.

[Dorn]

I know. But when we had to ban erevain and the rest for cheating ALFA was different , more competitive, more populated, more PvP, and bucket loafs of logs to scan fir cheating (god i remember that). Hell we had 7 active ALFA reps!! A policy that failed then may become more appropriate in diff circumstances even if it contradicts the DMG.

Now that we know everyone, perhaps a few leaders could suggest s few trusted (if not liked) peeps.

And yes we could build but I don't think we need more static content. Or more real estate. Or more tools...you guys ave done enough for us thete.

I think we need more uncodified dynamic consequential suprising 'life' in our vast existing servers. And for me that's a person with a DM wand.

Our rule changes to almost allow dm-play (eg DM, then quit, then DM again, then quit) just seem a messy way of basically doing something.

Anyway I'm hijacking the thread so I'll be quiet now.

[Zelknolf]

I don't know that it's really a hijack? The first bit was just about synergy to try to rebuild a base. Which I don't disagree with.

I'm not convinced that proposed methods are worth the cost, but I'm pretty sure that was a proposed method and OP lacked any specifics.


What became of the irregular RP group? It seemed successful, though like there was some holiday-related stumbling in the last month (though all of ALFA took an extra-strength dive right at the holidays, which we've seen the first little glimmer of recovery from this week). Would've thought that was a model worthy of emulation.

[Ithildur]

I've decided I need to get back into the flow of things (tricky to do atm for a number of reasons) before commenting in further detail; i want to avoid merely triggering yet another go around the same pole that leads nowhere and polarizes. I will say I'm inclined to see merit in some of Dorn's thoughts more so than I would have in years past, though probably not in the details of execution as much as the spirit of what he's saying.

That's all I'll say for now; resume ignoring me, though I'd follow further discussion on such with interest as I attempt to sort through other similar posts.

[Arianna]

It always amazes me that some people are ONLY willing to work on content IF they get to turn right around and not only DM people through it, but then hop on and play through it themselves.

I am glad you had good experiences with communal DMing in PnP Dorn, I was not so lucky I guess, we had the same sort of thing and I would find that one DM would run the group and we would get all sorts of loot and in the next round when that DM would play with the group instead some of that same loot would end up in his characters hands. I stopped playing in that sort of atmosphere, and instead went and played with a group that while we all took turns DMing we had totally separate characters for each game.


I for one will not, ever support the DM where you play concept, or the removal of Perma-death. If ALFA eventually does adopt either policy I will no longer be here.

Our rule changes to almost allow dm-play (eg DM, then quit, then DM again, then quit) just seem a messy way of basically doing something.

This also requires that the person be accepted again by the HDM of the server in between the quitting and DMing again. I do not know about the other servers but on MS your going to wait at least a week before you are allowed to come back and DM again.

[Zelknolf]

Yeah, the "microDMing" thing doesn't actually happen because...
-- If you've reset the server, you're acting as a DM. The server hasn't reset since you've stepped down. You did it. Yourself. As a DM. You have to wait for the next one before you play.
-- If you read the DM forums of a server with access granted to you for being a DM, you're acting as a DM on that server, same deal.
-- If you return to a server, the HDM must approve that return (and our HDMs seem to be against DMing where you play and corruptions of other policies to seek the effect).

People like to exaggerate. The gates aren't thrown open and not everyone is free to roam. The restrictions have been pulled back to only include the bits that the DMA found meaningful-- as it made seasonal DMing less painful of a trip, and we definitely have seasonal DMs-- but it's still restricted.

[Dorn]

What became of the irregular RP group? It seemed successful, though like there was some holiday-related stumbling in the last month (though all of ALFA took an extra-strength dive right at the holidays, which we've seen the first little glimmer of recovery from this week). Would've thought that was a model worthy of emulation.

Were meeting again tonight/tomorrow so its still going and is fun to play with others. But heegz is not able to DM anymore which limits some aspects of char development and questing.

I'd love to be able to DM them tonight and set some selunite or university stuff in motion for a few of them and then log in and provide my PC as a meatshield and link to a diff church/military order. Sure my enjoyment would be diminished a bit by knowing the plan, and my pc wouldn't get exp, but it would be the same fun I have normally but probably a bit more for them.

But yea, the irregular group is a great model, esp if you find a DM.

[Dorn]

That's a shame Arri, your experience sounds really bad. Its exactly that sort of thing and related that led to us banning some ALFA 1 dms.

I have to deal with serious conflicts of interest daily in my real life role and acting with integrity is essential which is why I don't really get cheating in games.

It's a shame some people behave in that way. But I thought given we gave DMAs and HDMs, which are administrative roles not in other nwnw2 pws, that we'd be able to spot any poor behaviour quickly.

Also as we only have crusty old dedicated stubbirn ALFA lovers left, I think the risk is lower. But if we lost you on principle only to gain a few part-time DMs its prob not a net gain. Hence suggesting a trils to convince you it could work!!!! never mind though

Ps - totally permadeath must stay.