Feedback from the members on xp for Bios

[Stormseeker]

I am along the lines of make it a certain length requirement and flat xp.

[Adanu]

Everyone has different writing styles, and some write more than others. The question that should be asked is thus; do we want to make the pass/fail details oriented, or length oriented?

[puny]

imho, base it on what it contains, make a little "guideline" of basic information that the bio need to contain, for example gods, view of life, mental disorders, goals, ideals, habbits... childhood horrors or whatever the DMs in general finds intresting and inspiering to learn about toons- and request more substance than just a one liner answer and some reasons to how and why and when etc.

i dont think that lenghtbased is a very good idea, could result in some bios being filled out random worthless and seriously unintresting wordpoping noone really wants to either write nor be inspired of from reading


also, if it ended up with being a a group of people "judgeing" if its "reward worthy" with critique eyes and beard strokeing, id certainly find it even more taxing to write up a bio.

[kid]

XP for bios is a good idea.
should be somewhere around 500-1000.
Imm a good story could likely put you at level2 if thats how you'd rather play.
Bios at later levels could give same reward.

important imm tho that this is a one time offer and we'll not start giving XP for the most prolific story writes, or bio upaters, and so on.

Bio should likely have some key elements that should be decided to award XP benefit (whatever it may be).

[gonz.0]

<clipped>

important imm tho that this is a one time offer and we'll not start giving XP for the most prolific story writes, or bio upaters, and so on.

<clipped>

Agreed... One time thing, for the initial insight to the character.

[AcadiusLost]

For what it's worth, I'm still very against the idea of giving direct in-game benefit (XP) for out-of-game contributions generally, whether it's bios, tech work, hosting, library submissions, etc. Writing a bio for your PC already pays dividends to some extent, in that it opens up backstory/motivations/etc to DMs for future development. Giving 500-1000 xp for a submitted/approved bio just feels like an end-run around the level 1 starting point to me. It adds more out-of-game work for the DMs/staff to read/review/score/organize/file each of the bios, and scheduling hassles trying to get player and DM coordinated to actually grant the XP award, when what we really want is more players logged in playing (preferably, with each other, and a DM). Getting a critical mass of players on together (esp. with DM involvement) is what really makes ALFA "work" IMHO, not time spent writing informational essays on a character that may die in it's first encounter, or discussing the essays of other members and assigning grades to them, in order to make a DM appointment that, more than likely, will not involve any DMing, just a story-less XP dump.

I expect I'm not the only old grump that feels this way, even though it seems like everyone else posting is on the "two thumbs up" side of the issue. Bah humbug, I say.

[Brokenbone]

written sources to get XP has been something many DMs have done for years anyway.
<SNIP>

I'm supportive in general of little "attaboy" type rewards for in character written content, or other OOC written content that helps explain what a PC might be up to, in terms of goals or activities or whatever. This includes stuff like military reports, poetry / stories (whether stuck in the ALFA library or not), proclamations, artwork, after action report writeups (like a session summary, really), really anything else that tickles a patron DM's fancy as enriching the game world somehow, demonstrating something about how the player has his/her character interact with the world, etc.

Sometimes the written content could be DM eyes only, sometimes other players would be able to check it out and enjoy it as well. In cases it might also reveal fundamental misunderstandings of a plot, or paranoia or "not yet thought of hooks" that maybe a DM ends up getting use out of. "Wow my one shot haunted house session made this PC think of some lost elven maiden in this region from something 6 months ago, maybe I can work in that to a follow on session..."

Anyhow, while I haven't noticed it personally in NWN2, I know in NWN1 it was a not-uncommon practice to give occasional token awards of XP for written type content.

I do not think our current guidelines quite "limit" DM rewards of DM Roleplay XP to only take into account in game action, though in game, it's much easier to measure the hours where the poor / average / good / exceptional RP would be for the purposes of plugging figures into the relevant GUI or whatever that thing is with the radio buttons and whatnot. http://www.alandfaraway.org/node/448

So a two line rumor someone tosses into a IC tavern tales thread, somehow giving a hint that an interesting event just happened, well, that may be just a few minutes of "good RP", maybe just call it half-hour times 45xp, so whatever, here's 20xp (really two 10xp cookies) for taking the time. Some poem that probably took hours to write, hey, multiply things out accordingly. Since maybe you can imagine this scene kind of getting out of control, throw on a cap like no more than "X" per week, like 100 or something. That is, all of a sudden if the rumor threads take off like crazy with worthless crap, "There is a rumor a gnome ordered a beer, but strangely he did so in abyssal tongue.", with anything all demanding of xp rewards, well, DMs may just say to hell with it, only rewarding "significant" roleplay and other enrichment of the game world.

Awards sort of in line with IG rewards do not seem too bothersome. People get rewarded I guess 15xp per RL hour just for being logged in, alone in a room, doing just enough once per 7 minutes to trigger a script. Back to the poem example above, I suppose it'd be weird if someone writing a ten verse poem out of game, posting it for others' enjoyment or to recite via their PC in the future, merits 0xp, but if log in at a desk and say *gets ink and quill* + 7 mins *starts listing some rhyming words together* + 7 mins *has a mug of wine looking over his progress so far* +7 mins *mutters to self "Not much rhymes with dwarf... wharf?"* + 7 mins *scratches out something too scandalous* , well I guess that may mean 8xp on next login, via script. Or if a DM were there WATCHING the process, well, they might well give a half hour of good RP award, which'd be 22-23xp (half of 45). Or maybe less if they thought "meh, this was only average RP, wish I had a hint of what the poem actually was about", then it might be half our x 30/hr, or 15xp. Either of which figure would also have the scripted 8xp on top of it (so like 30ish or 20ish xp if a DM had been watching over the process, with which our low DM coverage just ain't gonna happen).

Anyhow, yeah, I think DM rewarding of RP XP is "flexible" enough to cover out of game content in similar ways to stuff observed or overseen in game.

Bios could be one other kind of "RP contribution" to consider. Still, I'd not be thinking of like "999xp for your bio!" type stuff, more like let's assume bios involve a couple hours of at least average levels of thinking / writing, whether bullet pointy or english as a second language, even if it only takes a couple minutes to put the bullets down, there's been thought that goes into it. Maybe crank it up to assumed to be "good" or even "exceptional" RP, so anywhere between 2 hrs times 30, or 45, or 60. Maybe just a flat 150 or something, which probably assumes a LOT of excellent work went into it, which many times, won't be the case. "Peasant orphan who hates orcs" just can have the same reward as a ten page novella on how daily life in your monastery and a murder mystery ended up with your monk cast out on their ass with a stolen candlestick which happened to be worth 300gp starting money.

Net, yeah, supportive of the idea, I suspect our DM RP award guidelines "cover" it, though I gather that despite an apparent "some DMs do this already" practice, it's not currently supported by all Admin. I keep going back to the idea that if we support around 15xp per RL hour for sitting around mostly AFK, with emotes like *picks nose" timed appropriately, why not give at least equal, if not more of an "attaboy" for like, a gorgeous drawing of a battle some DM oversaw the week before or a poem prepared for a competition, or some obsessive secret cult report that no one but your one secret cultmate PC and DM are ever going to see...?

Note: I write up a lot of "after action report" type trash in my own group forums, but the prospect of XP reward there equals a big fat "don't care." Campaigns already have a steady diet of fun with Xp that comes along with it. If really hungry for XP, can grab a mailbag and sacrifice an hour to the march along in boredom gods. That doesn't do anything for the gameworld though!

[Rotku]

Everyone has different writing styles, and some write more than others.

I tend to bullet point my bios. It provides just as much detail for a DM, but saves me a lot of effort.

[gonz.0]

<snip> Giving 500-1000 xp for a submitted/approved bio just feels like an end-run around the level 1 starting point to me. <snip>

Yes, Yes it does. And getting to level two can be the hardest thing any PC does in their entire career, with the exception of what finally kills it for good. There have been conversations in the past of starting characters as level two or three and shot down because it didn't require any effort. This I think is a good middle ground on that, instead of instantly giving points for survivability, it's rewarding someone for having an investment in their new characters.

Characters that already have a developed back story, are a whole lot more fun to RP with than ones that are a collection of numbers. Isn't that what we are here for, the RP experience? If we want to just blast through things there are a hell of a lot of console games we could be playing.

[Ksiel]

I would support a 500 - 1000 exp bonus for a well written bio. Year back, maybe 2, the community voted on a level 2 start and it was supported by the majority. Nothing came of it, but this would be an option to not have to change the "Start at level 1", and while some may feel it to be a work around, I know of many who put a lot of time into their bio. I don't see an issue rewarding that time and effort, and in the process making the ability of the pc to survive increase.

Win Win in my book!

[kid]

also, if it ended up with being a a group of people "judgeing" if its "reward worthy" with critique eyes and beard strokeing, id certainly find it even more taxing to write up a bio.

Yes. If we decide we want to and are willing to reward XP for bio it should be a fixed amount (as suggested maybe 500 or 1000) as long as the Bio includes some information that stands in some formal critira. I'd not like us to judge it as "good" or "bad" that may well be a matter of taste.
But as puny said it should include information about X Y Z. (gods, family, personality, whatever we decide we want)

it is indeed a somewhat a round about way to a level 2 start (or not if its 500xp) and while i dont like a level2 start idea i do like to have us make sure nearly every player in ALFA would have a Bio, a story of some depths, and knowledge about the charcter he plays. I find that idea attractive. If we make people think up a good story I dont see such a big harm in a level 2 toon. infact... i'd rather us all start at level2 with an awesome storyline, than have a bunch of level1 mooks running about farming with no story what so ever.

[Twin Axes]

Just a thought on the issue of people's differing literary ability having an unfavourable impact on some of us. If the persons "grading" a bio find it lacking, they can always send it back with suggestions for amendments or additions. It needn't be a one shot affair. This way, everyone is pretty much guaranteed to get the xp in the end, and a great bio to boot!

[Regas]

Thanks for all the feedback so far all

Here's where I am with this proposal based on your feedback:

1) the reward would be a flat 500 xp based on completing a standardized bio that would be helpful for DMs but would not require any skill in writing. Poorly written or short bios would not count against the member's effort as long as they covered the requested details and were not obviously submitted as a joke.

2) The Bio award would be open to any pc at any level, but would only be applicable once. The reward would be noted in the pc bio thread DMs use for each pc.

3) The initial process would be staggered with players able to submit bios based on level until we get caught up so we don't get over-run with requests. The players with existing Bios could re-submit them for xp as well - though they may need to tweak the Bio to meet the requested info. (Figure three months to get everyone through).

4) The player app department of the PA will make itself available to lend a hand with managing the process if this is desired by the DMA/ HDMs. Could be just to help with the initial push or maybe ongoing- up to the DM folk.

5) This will be the only formal out of game reward for now. Maybe we'd review this in the future if it looks like something the community wants to pursue.


Please keep the feedback coming, I welcome private PMs if someone is shy to post- I especially would like to hear from folks who don't want this added to our format.

Thanks All,

Reg

[Blindhamsterman]

sounds good!

[oldgrayrogue]

Great ideas but less guidelines. Any bio that is not a joke or clearly submitted just for the XP (our DMs or app reviewers are more than competent to tell the difference) starts your PC with enough XP for level 2. Period, end of story. Players should know that every PC bio submitted is posted in a thread by the DM it is submitted to. Personally, I read every bio of any player I ever DM, or am thinking about DMing. From the number of views most bios get that are posted in the thread, I'd say most DMs do the same.

And XP should be awarded by DMs -- liberally -- for library posts about IG stories or private written bio updates to DMs. If this is supposed to be about stories then lets reward (and promote) story telling.