Tieflings

[psycho_leo]

-1 for relating CHA to physical attractiveness. People have subjective views on what that is. Also, you can be handsome and be a total dickweed. Trust me. I've seen it, it's pretty common.

That's true, but there's a reason some races get hit with a CHA penalty. Half-orcs are ugly as f*ck no matter how high their charisma is. A Half-orc with high CHA might be very pleaseant to be around and a inspiring leader, but he won't sweep girls off their feet with his looks (unless you're talking ugly as f*ck half-orc girls). A tieflings CHA penalty might refer to his looks, but it could also just mean he smells of rotten eggs or some shat like that.

[Mulu]

-1 for relating CHA to physical attractiveness. People have subjective views on what that is. Also, you can be handsome and be a total dickweed. Trust me. I've seen it, it's pretty common.

That's because they can get away with it.

Removing Comliness from the game was a huge mistake.

[Vendrin]

And this is the kind of stuff is why ALFA has no live NWN2 servers and very few people still around to play on them.

honestly, tieflings, aasimir and gensai are in the game already, if people want to play, let them, and if a player causes a problem with it, remove the player, instead of wasting time and energy and driving people away with idiocy like this.

[Zelknolf]

-1 for relating CHA to physical attractiveness. People have subjective views on what that is. Also, you can be handsome and be a total dickweed. Trust me. I've seen it, it's pretty common.

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#abilityScores

Of course, personality and persuasiveness are subjective, too. Charisma no doubt speaks in generalities, and most people would think that tieflings are ugly assholes.

[Mayhem]

And this is the kind of stuff is why ALFA has no live NWN2 servers and very few people still around to play on them.

honestly, tieflings, aasimir and gensai are in the game already, if people want to play, let them, and if a player causes a problem with it, remove the player, instead of wasting time and energy and driving people away with idiocy like this.

Hmm, I think you'll actually find its got a heck of a lot more to do with the physical effort required to build a good-looking, well-scripted server on the scale most of our teams are going for, without any bugs.

That's true, but there's a reason some races get hit with a CHA penalty. Half-orcs are ugly as f*ck no matter how high their charisma is. A Half-orc with high CHA might be very pleaseant to be around and a inspiring leader, but he won't sweep girls off their feet with his looks (unless you're talking ugly as f*ck half-orc girls).

Thats' actually one thing I hate about CHA. Going by CHA a half orc (or dwarf) is just as ugly to another member of their own race as they are to humans. Which is pretty silly, really, as it assumes all races have the same standard for attractiveness. I seriously doubt that a dwarf is going to find a human woman more attractive than a nice stout dwarfette with a soft silky beard .

[psycho_leo]

Hmm, I think you'll actually find its got a heck of a lot more to do with the physical effort required to build a good-looking, well-scripted server on the scale most of our teams are going for, without any bugs.

Pretty sure he means that decisions like this are the reason we don't have that much people working to get a working server. I'm not saying I agree with it and even if that's a reason I'm sure there are a ton of others.

[JaydeMoon]

If that's the case, I imagine if you could produce the boatload of builders who would contribute to ALFA's server building, but only if they can make content that includes those specific races, you remove the contention that it takes too much effort to build servers and have to account for tieflings and such.

I mean, if I'm Builder Supreme Kilroy and I ain't building for ALFA because they won't let them have tieflings, and you say, "HEY, Kilroy! We want you to build, we'll open it up for Tieflings, but you gotta make the content so it recognizes tieflings and responds to them. Also for other planetouched as well!"... then maybe I'd jump in and start working on ALFA servers.

Find 5-??? Kilroy's who all say they'd be happy to build for ALFA as long as we have tieflings and other planetouched and sure we'll make sure the content takes into account those subraces and the reaction of the world at large to them, then you've changed the equation and removed the single biggest reason for not including them.

Run on sentences ftw.

[Souvarine]

Well Jaydemoon, if that's the biggest reason not to include them, it never existed...

We don't need builders or scripters to do anything about tieflings like we had for drows in alfa1 before the underdark expansion. The planetouched are already in the game as Vendrin said. What scripts or static content would be needed for them anyway?

Now if you mean a world which responds to your very character concept, then alfa isn't going to provide that no matter the race you pick, ever. Let's get real, even the official campaign had more npc/pc interaction that we've had. The static server is only a stage; most npc's say the same thing to a 18 cha elf than a 6 cha half-orc (or whatever low cha character). Dms are the ones to personalize your experience.

The only non-standard content which might be used by a tiefling is the one that will be built anyway for evil pc's (black market outposts, for example). So if you have a city and there is high intolerance for anything but humans/elves/halflings, you'll already have scripts to "ban" drows, half orcs, dwarves; adding a line for tieflings takes 3 minutes tops. Aasimar are even less of a burden to traditional places of goodness; they'd be welcome in most places.

I've played many half-orcs and never seen any script firing because an half-monster comes in the village...why would it suddenly be required for planetouched who are even closer to the human race?

[Zelknolf]

Obviously, we would have questions about spells like dismissal or banishment to handle, and if we follow the ALFA pattern, ten people must argue over how they should work on planetouched (even though the PnP spell wouldn't be able to target planetouched, because they're not extraplanar when they're on the prime), and then we'd need someone willing to code if any conclusion is reached... so we're already eleven people short!

You're making work for us, Souvarine, and you should be ashamed!

[JaydeMoon]

Well Jaydemoon, if that's the biggest reason not to include them, it never existed...

Doesn't matter if that's what you (or even I) think.

It matters that that is what the current builders/DMs overall think. Don't convince me, convince them. Good luck, the prior 30+ pages of multiple threads hasn't convinced them yet. An entire forum temporarily created for the issue didn't convince them. Further, by this point, they probably aren't even monitoring this thread.

[danielmn]

I have gone to the effort of heavily scripting my current temple with appropriate Tiefling responses from NPC's just in case they are ever allowed in the future....

All Tieflings entering The HOuse INvincible will be killed on sight, no questions asked, all inventory from said kill will be donated to the temple, and the lowest of the Helmite order have been scripted to shovel up the remains and dispose of accordingly by inceneration.

So there, at least one of the builders has gone to the effort.

***Just kidding, not being serious at all...as if I ever am.***

[Mulu]

Obviously, we would have questions about spells like dismissal or banishment to handle

No, they are plane-touched, not planar. Seriously, they are humans, with a trace of planar ancestry. Not half-humans, humans.

I won't play them anyway, but then again I won't play half-orcs or drow either. Still, they are canon, they require less effort than already included races, they were previously ruled to be in the game, and they belong in the game.

This is a classic example of ALFA shooting itself in the foot. Whatever new players we would hope to attract in the future are going to come out of their SP NWN2 experience having been able to play planetouched races, and some percentage of those new players will be lost simply because of their exclusion.

[Zelknolf]

No, they are plane-touched, not planar. Seriously, they are humans, with a trace of planar ancestry. Not half-humans, humans.

Links for your perusal:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ ... 20language
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irony
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/satire

[danielmn]

And the definition of some thing that takes itself and everything around it too seriously???

Anyone???

Correct answer is...MULU!

Sorry bud, couldn't help it.

[JaydeMoon]

Dude, seriously. Seriously, dude. Dude. Seriously.