Planetouched for ALFA-NWN2

[HEEGZ]

(a) We should allow planetouched races.

(b) We should only allow planetouched races packaged with NWN2.

(c) Anyone should be allowed to play a planetouched race (or alternatively, no one should).

(d) NA.

Basically, make sure the RP is up to snuff. I'm not sure what to do if we have a disproportionate number of these types of races, but I'd rather have that problem than not permit them at all.

[Rusty]

The argument against a planetouched free-for-all is immersion. Planetouched PCs are not like other 'races'; they, generally, do not breed true - they are not, really, a 'race' at all. And as soon as that second Planetouched PC walks into an inn in the Delimbyr vale, then immersion has been blown out of the window. This is problematic not only for PC roleplay - as Waterdeep suddenly becomes a district of Sigil - but also for DMs/builders. Planetouched may have a unique visual appearance (scales, horns, tails, weird eyes/skin/hair colours, etc) that it is unimmersive for NPCs not to react to, whether that be scripted or DM-controlled. Thus, DMs find themselves in a situation where they are forced to engage in basic environmental reaction DMing in order to maintain some plausibility in the game-world, and builders have to add numerous dialogue and script reponses to account for odd-looking humans.

Is any of this worth it? Personally, I'm not sure; it is fun vs hassle. It's all very well saying that 'allow planetouched until it becomes a problem' - but it becomes a problem the first time Mr Bob the Tiefling (avec horn and tails) walks into a bar and the barman doesn't call the guards. It becomes a problem as soon a second earth genasi logs onto a server. Immersion goes, and with it goes the high quality RP that this project is about. At the very least, we need to define what 'too much' is; at the most, we might consider that including Planetouched PCs in our game world does not, actually, add anything to our roleplay, but just adds complications for our DMs and players in maintaing an immersive game reality. A potential compromise would be to allow Planetouched PCs in the same way that we permit Prestige Classes - by application; if desired, we could even set an upper limit for each variant, or the total. It is all very well saying that nothing should be done till there is a problem; but the basic fact is that more than one Planetouched in the same area of a server is a problem.

(On a slightly related note, servers will have the power to restrict which races may start on their server. Teams will be able to either prohibit certain races from starting on their server, or require biographical approval before creation; such approval might be an appropriate way to deal with Planetouched (with their unique racial history), ensuring that at least a modicum of thought and research goes into the creation of Suzie X Hotlips, Tiefling Sorcerer/Rogue/Cyb0rist of Sigil.)

Fundamentally, the question is whether the destructive effect Planetouched PCs will have on immersion worth allowing people to play them? I think the answer is, probably not. NWN1 ALFA was not diminished by an absence of Planetouched PCs, the stories told were no less compelling, and the roleplay was of no lesser quality. Individuals may really want to play a Planetouched PC, but that is no more a compelling argument for including them than people desiring Spellfire- or Truespeech- or Psionic-capable PCs would be. We need to examine not simply what is wanted, but what the consequences of that want are, and if those consequences are a decrease in enjoyment for the majority at the expense of those living out their Planetouched fantasies, then ALFA is probably better off without Planetouched PCs.

[Nyarlathotep]

Depending on location and setting meeting two wild elves or even two gold dwarves could be potentially as upsetting to immersion as any planetouched. In some regions (currently outside of ALFA), such a Muhlorand and Thay, planetouched would be well known and considered a far more normal part of existence than would even a generic moon elf. A location like WD has frost giants walk up to the city gates in canon and find itself gainfully employed by the city. FR has gods walking the streets, floating cities, wizards that can pwn demon lords, and ever increasing host of CR30+ NPCs. Planetouched are not all that immersion breaking in such a high level and magic heavy campaign setting.

[fluffmonster]

yeah, a few planetouched are no more immersion-breaking than a few sun elves or other races we freely allow now. One could even argue that population proportions within the adventuring profession are quite different than within the whole population of Faerun. Its when a majority of PCs start being "rare" races that things get out of hand. I don't consider that particularly likely which is why I'm not that concerned about it. If server teams do have power of review over new PCs, which isn't that different from just requiring every PC to have a bio submitted to the DM team of their starting server, problems of severe skewness will become apparent before it gets baked into the cake.

[Vaelahr]

I agree with Rusty's post.

As for the immersion-breaking potential of currently allowed subraces....well, we as DMs deal with such situations as they occur, or we should anyway. (A deep gnome enlisting in the Daggerford militia, for instance)

[Mulu]

Suzie X Hotlips, Tiefling Sorcerer/Rogue/Cyb0rist of Sigil.

Dang, there goes my PC concept, now it will look stolen.

Of course, Rusty's whole argument can be leveled against drow, duergar and svirfs too. Once you open the door to traditionally monster races, it's hard to decide how far to hold it open.

I suppose just thinking of adventurers as the wannabe rock stars of Faerun makes it normal for them to be freaks. In Faerun, normal humans are the oddity. It's a monster world.

[Veilan]

I'm a bit torn. On the one hand, I love and enjoy playing people like Hakim...

I am Ali Abdul Rahman Hakim ben Harad ibn Fayad saba Kashbah, and these are the tales of my life and journeys.

My great grandmother was a genie, and a mixed blessing has it been upon my life. My mother Shalil posessed her grace and fickle spirit, and as such wooed the son of the caliph, who later had to wed another. In disgrace my family had to flee, and I myself escaped by the harbour, at the age of eleven, sailing aboard what I soon learnt to be a corsair ship.

And so many seas have I sailed, many adventures braved, many songs have I listened to, seen much peril and many a beautiful maid, some of whose lips were sweeter than the darkest wine, whose skin whiter than curd, and whose body softer than a ripe plum or the nostrils of a Shadif horse from the Wadi Ghenna, seen, gained and lost treasures beyond reckoning and many of the wonders of the world.

Sit now, if you will, and listen, for my life is a corsair's, and before the afternoon sun sinking returns the bazar to its final bustle of the day, you, too, will know how it is to taste freedom and touch the fabric of which all tales are woven of...

But on the other hand, planetouched characters bring the immense problem of demanding and requiring permanent attention, ressources and effort from their environment, be it PCs, DMs or builders. That is simply not something lightly thrown into a PW, where there is not a single DM always present to maintain continuity and an immersive reaction. Some DMs may just not always want to bother with roleplaying out a proper reaction of the tavern patrons / city guards / random other NPCs everytime the planetouched character demands attention with his mere presence.
All of this together presents a real and profound threat to plausibility and immersion, both for the planetouched player as well as the rest.

Much thought and consideration will have to be poured into how an accomodation is feasible.

[Veilan]

I suppose just thinking of adventurers as the wannabe rock stars of Faerun makes it normal for them to be freaks. In Faerun, normal humans are the oddity. It's a monster world.

Normal Faerûn has one active group of ta'veren player characters at any one time. Not the overrepresented multitude of freaks like a goddang PW!

[Mulu]

I suppose just thinking of adventurers as the wannabe rock stars of Faerun makes it normal for them to be freaks. In Faerun, normal humans are the oddity. It's a monster world.

Normal Faerûn has one active group of ta'veren player characters at any one time. Not the overrepresented multitude of freaks like a goddang PW!

Well, Waterdeep does have an Adventurers' Quarter as canon, so FR must be populated by a *lot* of adventurers.

Living city had thousands of PC's in FR....

[Aelred]

Huh? Isn't "ta'veren" a term for the men who can control the weave in the Wheel of Time series? I thought we were in Faerun

[Vaelahr]

Huh? Isn't "ta'veren" a term for the men who can control the weave in the Wheel of Time series? I thought we were in Faerun

Indeed!

[Veilan]

Well, Waterdeep does have an Adventurers' Quarter as canon, so FR must be populated by a *lot* of adventurers.

Living city had thousands of PC's in FR....

Normal Faerûn has one active group of ta'veren player characters at any one time.

Null Punkte. You'll never have the amount of simultaneous activity of different spotlights on the world in PnP than you have in a PW.

I used the term ta'veren as it is a pretty good term defining what sets a PC apart from an NPC, adventurer or not: one actually affects the gameworld, the other only indirectly by affecting the PCs. Since existance requires perception, only the spotlight on the field that is open to the actual played characters actually exists - nothing else can compete in quality.

The usual gameworld for PnP consists only of what the DM and his group focus on. Further cooperative efforts to try to add simultaneous happenings, like for instance a PW, bring up an increase in complexity of several orders of magnitudes.

There's a stark difference in quality between single-group PnP and the multi-simultanous-non-DM-consistent (or even present) PW concept. This difference makes the issues of planetouched, which would not represent a problem in the "normal" PnP setup, suddenly glaring and complicated in a PW, where there is no guaranteed, consistent, automated check and deliberated response.
Character builds that require permanent attention, feedback and interaction from their environment therefore are ill suited for PWs. Planetouched characters are extremely likely to fall into this category (there are exceptions, of course), therefore we already need to pour a lot of effort into mitigating the problems this would present. It's the same as the scripted unconcealed Drow responses, really, though actually even more complicated as the binary approach of attack or flee is in no way sufficient to cover the multitude of possible nuanced reactions, that are also dependant on the actual kind of planetouched.

The worms are all over the place.

[Nyarlathotep]

The thing is the only race where these worms don't raise their head at some point is human, we may like to think of them as "normal" but dwarves, elves, and the utterly reprehensible scumdogs we call halflings all have issues in various locales that can approach or exceed that presented by the planetouched. An elf in a Moonsea location like Zhentil Keep by rights should constantly invoke the same sort of attentions that a tiefling would enjoy in Cormyr. On the other hand you have WD's Knights of Samular and its 13 Aasimar. There are very few builds that in a certain light don't require full fledged DM attention to create a fully realistic reactions from NPCs...heavy scarring, unusual races, openly displayed holy symbols of any kind, numerous weapons, armor, and other things all should elicit response.

So as a matter of course in a player world we fudge a bit. Does it mean that at times we have so many elves, dwarves, and repulsive hin running around that humans seem exotic? Yes. Does it mean that openly armed people walk around displaying holy symbols enter bars and taverns unremarked or challenged? Yes.

To put it another way most player characters are heavily armed freaks of unknown origins. Well known player characters are heavily armed freaks with a known tendency towards savage violence. None of them should be going about unremarked or unchallenged but in the interests of fun we set aside this logic and just let things play out.

[dergon darkhelm]

Player races:

Human, dwarf, halfling, elf, half-elf, gnome, half-orc.










((I would say drow are allowed only because we have a special place built for them where *they* are the places and *we* are the monster/lower races))

[fluffmonster]

plane-touched don't require any more special attention than a half-orc. If DMs want to be hands-on about various races, that's going to bind well before plane-touched show up...non-humans in Luskan, for example; half-orcs in Cormyr; elves in Sembia. This happens anyway, there is no additional cost to planetouched. The argument that planetouched will require work that isn't already done is pretty vacuous.