Amnesty attacks US over abuses

mxlm · Post by **mxlm** » Wed May 30, 2007 7:54 pm

Gee, the second ammendment isn't intended to confer 'unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons'? So I can't buy as many Javelins as I can afford? I can't buy a fully functional M1A2?

Help, help, I'm being repressed!

Veilan · Post by **Veilan** » Wed May 30, 2007 7:55 pm

Bleh.

Christianity doesn't even promote displaying religious items publically or rubbing your faith into anyone's noses... in fact the opposite.

MorbidKate · Post by **MorbidKate** » Wed May 30, 2007 8:59 pm

Nekulor wrote:However, as of 2006, twice the death row inmates were whites as all minorities combined.

Eh? Source please. In the meantime, please explain these numbers:

Prisoners on death row by race

2005 - White: 1,805 (55.47%) Other: 1,449 (44.53%)

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tab ... acetab.htm

And how about this for good measure?

Jail populations by race and ethnicity

2005 - White: 331,000 (45.13%) Other: 402,400 (54.87%)

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tab ... acetab.htm

I'd really like to know where you get your version of reality from.

Kate

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:12 pm

Nekulor wrote:Then explain the current works of the ACLU GF, for example, protecting the protesting crazy baptists, but then suing the government to have religious-themed grave markers removed from military cemeteries.

Did you just skip everything I posted, or are you retarded?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/cemetery.asp

Let me summarize. THEY DID NOT DO ANYTHING OF THE SORT. IT IS A MYTH. The most recent thing they did was when the Army refused to allow pagans/wiccans to have their religious symbols on their graves, and the ACLU sued to force them to be permitted to have religious grave markers! If you're keeping track, that means the ACLU actually did PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE of what you claim they are doing, and sued in favor of religious grave markers! :O

Nekulor wrote:As a member of the NRA, that should make you wary GF.

I don't live in your simplistic black-and-white fantasyland. No single organization or political philosophy is perfectly correct. Disagreeing with the ACLU's stance on a couple issues does not suddenly turn them into evil Stalinists who I must oppose.

Jeppan · Post by **Jeppan** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:25 pm

Nekulor · Post by **Nekulor** » Thu May 31, 2007 1:51 pm

Fine, because it doesn't seem I'm going to win here, considering the odds are against me, I'll simply go to I disagree in many cases with the actions of the ACLU. I give up.

Stormseeker · Post by **Stormseeker** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:16 pm

They have sued over crosses being used at two millitary memorials out west.

Nekulor · Post by **Nekulor** » Thu May 31, 2007 9:40 pm

That is what I brought up Stormseeker, but the general consensus here is that the ACLU is a great thing in this nation, something I disagree with. I'm outnumbered and out gunned as far as this argument goes, so I think I'll give up on trying to convince everyone that the ACLU is more destructive than constructive.

Rotku · Post by **Rotku** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:51 pm

I had never heard of AUCL until reading this thread, but to me anything that tries to stick up for peoples freedom is a great thing - even if they may sometimes make mistakes. Even reading over those examples you posted, Nekulor, I cannot see anything really wrong. If you could provide a solid sorce where they attempted to ban crosses been used at military memorials, I might reconsider - but so far when it has come to that there have been no sources, so it appears to me, as an outsider, as mere propaganda.

mxlm · Post by **mxlm** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:56 pm

That is what I brought up Stormseeker, but the general consensus here is that the ACLU is a great thing in this nation, something I disagree with.

Did you skip GF's most recent post? Yes, yes, he's being insulting in it, but the relevant point--which you missed--is that what you brought up is untrue. Urban myth. Propaganda.

The consensus here is based on data (well, anecdotes, but they serve as counterfactuals to the claims you've been making). Your view does not appear to be. At the very least, if it is, you have yet to share your information with us, and the information you have shared has been demonstrably untrue.

http://www.aclu.org/images/asset_upload ... _26244.pdf

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:30 am

Nekulor wrote:That is what I brought up Stormseeker, but the general consensus here is that the ACLU is a great thing in this nation, something I disagree with. I'm outnumbered and out gunned as far as this argument goes, so I think I'll give up on trying to convince everyone that the ACLU is more destructive than constructive.

You could always inform yourself and back your arguments up with real data. It is no wonder you feel outgunned when every wild opinion you have spouted has been shot down in flames by actual facts.

Stormseeker · Post by **Stormseeker** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:21 pm

Most of the stuff i disagree with, well atleast the stuff that gets to be newsworthy. Still i like that they are just one of the many balances that our country has going for it.
What i posted about on them is true, i just dont know the full details and unless pushed i aint going to find them. As for source i seen it on my local abc news and heard about it on the local cbs radio station. Then caught Fox's argument about it.*grins*

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:07 pm

1. The ACLU has NOT sued to remove religious symbols from graves - just the opposite in fact, as it has sued to ALLOW Wiccan religious symbols on graves. Thus Nekulor's previous assertions were wrong, as others pointed out.

2. The ACLU HAS sued to remove religious symbols from a war memorial site - Mt. Soledad in San Diego. The ACLU brought the suit on behalf of Jewish War Veterans association and local residents who want the cross moved to another location. You can find the article here. Thus, Stormseeker's previous assertion was correct.

There is a difference between a religious symbol on a person's grave, and a huge religious symbol looming over the entire memorial site.

And by the way, it took me about 30 seconds Googling "ACLU" "Cross" and "War Memorial" to find the article about this on the ACLU website and other places. In this day and age, there is little excuse for not doing at least some cursory investigation.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:10 pm

Way, way back when I still watched the TV news I caught a broadcast from the local station in LA about UFO's visiting us, and it was completely serious. I've watched local TV news proclaim miracles have been authenticated, that evolution is "questioned by scientists," and that the cure for cancer has been found... about twenty times. Local TV news is largely a joke.

As far as the ACLU filings go, it's easy enough to read the actual filings online, if you are really interested. Why rely on some retard with a BS in journalism to explain the world to you? What makes you thing they know anything? The idiots probably all cheated on their exams.

When Iranian President Ahmadinejad wrote a several page letter to Bush, I didn't trust the soundbite analysis being given by the US news media, which simply said it was "rambling, crazy," (especially since I knew that analysis had come from the Whitehouse). So I found a full translation online and read it myself. It wasn't rambling or crazy. It did take several stabs at Bush's Christian credentials ("a true Christian would..."), and of course was from the perspective of a different culture, but it was interesting to read. Far more interesting than the nonsense being spouted about it by the media. And it took less time to find and read the full letter than it did to watch a news broadcast about it, that said far less.

To really understand this world, you have to get as close to the source of news as possible. If you can't get close, then read from a variety of sources, foreign and domestic, to get a bigger picture. For an important story I typically read a couple US newspapers, a UK newspaper, an Indian newspaper, a Lebanon newspaper, and Asia Online, and then if it's important enough I go to the online journals. It takes less time than you think. In fact, it takes less time than watching the news, and you learn far more, and best of all you *don't* hear the latest celebrity saga or other filler.

A good news conglomeration site I've relied on the past few years, I highly recommend it:

War in Context

An edited Google News page is a great tool too.

Be informed. It's sexy.

Nekulor · Post by **Nekulor** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:45 am

Mulu, why would you stand up for Amedinejad? I read his piece, it wasn't too off the deep end, not like I expected, but the man held a conference DENOUNCING THE HOLOCAUST! He lost all of my respect when he did that, the little he had at least. If he isn't crazy, then I'm Bill Gates.