Fate point system

[SCI-kick]

This is just a suggestion, which is kind of a midway point between perma-death and the alternative that WD is now.

Most of the high level folks have died several times, and some more than others want to keep their PC and story alive with the other surviving high level PC's. Some like to restart a lot, some not so much.

I played a server before that had a "fate point" system. So you basically start with 2 fate points, and if your PC dies, you can spend one to get a rez, with whatever penalties apply. If you have no fate points, your character's luck has run out, or it is just your time to die. You might also gain fate points, maybe one at 10th level, or for completing an exceptionally hard quest.

Just a suggestion that worked pretty well on a NWN2 server I played on for a few years.

Cheers,
sci

[Magile]

Ayergo and Mick seem to take into consideration a lot of things. Sometimes a resurrection is outright denied based on faith (or lack thereof) or how they died. Since it always involves a DM to resurrect a dead PC, I feel like that should just remain in the DMs' hands.

[Galadorn]

Cool idea and I bet it works great on servers it's on. I think every rez should be an IC situation unless DMs decree it a techincal issue, and even then, they've been known to be strict (which I like). Also, why I don't like the idea is: Players will take OOC unnecessary risks that their PC realistically would definitely not take if they knew they had "2 (or more!) fate points" in their pocket, so, hey "Why not charge that dragon, we might win and get a hoard of phat lewtz! but if we all die, it's ok, we all can just come on back." EW.

[Mick]

I think that particular system is a bit too OOC, as Galadorn alluded to.

I do not mind IC rezzes being utilized as long as there are IC reasons for doing so. These are up to the Player and can be widely variable, I think

That said, death should be something that affects a PC. We are currently considering imposing a permanent CON drain every time you are raised/rezzed. This would probably only apply after a certain level to give lowbies a second chance here and there. This is the system that older editions of D&D used to limit the number of times a person could come back.

NOTE: This is not something that is definitely going to be implemented, but something your DM team has been discussing.

[ImStrokerAce]

Here here for Con losses!

[ayergo]

Yup, I'm also keen on the con loss, but need a better way to implement it. Oddly enough the tricky part right now is the rez, as for some reason I can't hook those spells. I haven't been able to figure out why yet.

[SCI-kick]

Ayergo and Mick seem to take into consideration a lot of things. Sometimes a resurrection is outright denied based on faith (or lack thereof) or how they died. Since it always involves a DM to resurrect a dead PC, I feel like that should just remain in the DMs' hands.

I disagree. Why should only characters with strong religion based class and background get preferred access? So just because you don’t play a religious PC means you can’t get a raise ? How’s that fair?

[jmecha]

I could be very wrong here, but I suspect what was being said was that as per the setting of Faerun and Forgotten Realms a character's religious convictions and beliefs effect things such as if they will be or will not granted access to a second chance at life. Surely some very devout Clerics of Kevelormore may not take a Rez because of their belief that death should be embraced, and maybe Lathanderites are more likely to be Reborn with a Second or Third chance at life. The impression I got from reading what was written is that the DM Team takes into consideration everything they can when deciding if a Rez is or is not available, and as per the Forgotten Realms setting the Gods and a Character's devotion or lack of such to them is a factor that should not be ignored.

I believe it is Canon that Kevelmore sends the Faithless to the Wall, now what is or is not strictly considered Faithless and how long a Character has between death and reaching the Wall is up to the DM's and I am comfortable with them having that wiggle room to have the freedom they need to craft interesting and engaging stories and plots for us as players to interact with.

[jmecha]

How’s that fair?

Also to be completely honest, there are alot of things in the World Setting of Fearun and Forgotten Realms that simply are not fair, much like the real world.

[SCI-kick]

I guess my point here is that currently the death rules on ALFA : NWN1 WD seem pretty vague and arbitrary.

Or, if there is set rules for death I just haven’t seen them.

[oldgrayrogue]

I think the DM Team is trying to address this Sci. As someone who never took a rezz (other than pure tech rezz) before my last PC Adam Payne I have to say I think we IC rezz way too much on WD. Ayergo and Mick are trying to correct that which I believe is a good thing and I think was part of the reason Adam was essentially denied a rezz on his last death. I have always felt PC turnover is healthy for a server. I love the way Ayergo has implemented level progression on the server (fast out the gate then progressively slower and harder as levels increase), as it is exactly what I argued for to no avail for NWN2 forever. IC rezzes should be just that -- IC. There has to be an in character reason why a PC would want to come back to life instead of be in the embrace of their god. Now, I do agree with Sci in this respect, it is canon that demons and devils open portals to the fugue to try to convince desperate souls, the false or the faithless to make deals with them for resurrection. I think that is IC and would like to see that as an option for those who are evil or do not RP a strong faith based PC, with all of the consequences that come with it.

[Mick]

I would agree we don’t have completely defined death rules and that a lot of what happens is case by case. I would also submit that there is nothing wrong with that.

As for religious PCs who are established with a church getting preferential treatment when it comes to rezzes, I would argue that is how it should be. Some churches might provide raise dead or resurrection as a purely financial transaction, but most would not and there would/should be the expectation of conversion or some act of service affixed to such powerful blessings.

[ayergo]

I would agree we don’t have completely defined death rules and that a lot of what happens is case by case. I would also submit that there is nothing wrong with that.

As for religious PCs who are established with a church getting preferential treatment when it comes to rezzes, I would argue that is how it should be. Some churches might provide raise dead or resurrection as a purely financial transaction, but most would not and there would/should be the expectation of conversion or some act of service affixed to such powerful blessings.

Perfectly said.

Also as I've stated, I haven't figured out how to change the technical side of it yet.

[Senor T]

Oooh, hot thread!

And +1 for mick's post.

I will also submit that FR is a world in which the gods are provably real. We're not talking faith in the divine without evidence... it's the opposite. Your character KNOWS that actual gods do magic shit for peeps all the damn time. How your character engages with that is obviously a matter of RP, of course.

I am against changing the system. We've all opted into the current system for various reasons. The current system has proven to be flexible enough to accommodate our varying play styles.

It's true though, that some people think, 'you should play more like I like to play!' And I get that. I mean, the rest of you do play pretty wrong. You should stop that. Especially Rumple.

One of the things I've really been enjoying about the server is that everyone gets to play how they want to and everyone else more or less supports that. Changing the rules at this point to penalize those who take rezzes is saying that some people take too many rezzes.

I would ask this in response: why is that a problem for you? And I'm asking that genuinely. If I were a DM I think the answer might be, 'it's pulling the level range of the server too far apart,' which is valid, as it means that they need to do more to optimize for that level range. Ayergo has certainly been working his feathers off balancing rewards and keeping highbies from abusing things. Also having to run multiple level events is an issue... but what's the solution there? Move the cap down from 12 to to 9?

But players? If we had a CvC problem, I think players would have a strong case for bringing rezzes into a range. But as it is there isn't really any CvC. How does my character taking a rez affect you other than you don't like to play that way and you think I should play like you like to play?

Of course, I'm obviously biased. I've put a lot of time and energy into my toon and I'd like the option to rez her in the future.

I also am okay with the extreme slowing of leveling rate at levels 10+. I'm here to tell you that I've been 12 for a LONG time. And there's a lot of disincentive from a pure gaming point of view for level 12 characters. It's hard to gain XP to craft anything, for one. So your character is pretty stagnant from a pure power perspective. But I'm good with that. I truly appreciate that the server level gap is a thing. I just enjoy playing my toon, and am good paying the price for that. I can definitely see why some would be willing to start over though.

Sorry this got out of hand. I've just seen lots of support for changing the rez rules, and I think I have some valid points... obviously. Carry on though. And worst of luck trying to figure out how to make it a reality ayergo! ;p

[valn99]

I very much agree with everything Senor T has written.

I would also add this: if you allow and agree with all those "save or die" situations (such as death magic), I think the raise dead and resurrection spells are needed to balance it out. Losing a level is already a steep penalty at higher levels, if you don't have time to play much.

Lastly, I would point out that the high level PCs we currently have are not necessarily the PCs that have been around the longest.
Some players have gotten pretty good at climbing the XP ladder.