NWN1: Part 2

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Veilan
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Re: NWN1: Part 2

Post by Veilan »

jmecha wrote:What are your ideas on the matter?
Well, we basically have a gradient between two poles. I am fine as is currently (because, I think, it is what ayergo & co. find most helpful to run their servers), which is "no compliance on standards, but compliance on community conduct rules". It works and gives a big amount of freedom, the biggest drawback being that it offers no true community integration, and that it only works as long as we have good guys in charge of the NWN 1 servers. Obviously, this works relatively well for IA and PA, but TA & DMA may have some issues here where default rights as "official" ALFA DMs/builders are concerned (and reasonably so: no representation without taxation).

The extreme other pole, as offered by DMA, was full compliance to ALFA (read: NWN 2) standards, to be demonstrated by the prospective HDMs. This I believe is an unrealistic option - it would place an undue burden either on DMA (& staff) or on the NWN 1 module captains, and does not seem the best fit for the purpose that standard compliance should achieve - i.e. a comparable, moderated, fair and considered playing experience for everyone.

Perhaps not unsurprisingly I think the golden road should lie somewhere in the middle. We are already agreed on full community codes of conduct (you grief somebody on ayergo's Waterdeep, you are in danger of not only losing your privileges with ayergo, but also with "official" ALFA - i.e. NWN 2, forums, chat, discord). I think it would behoove us to have a separate set of "NWN 1 standards", applicable to both EE and vanilla servers, ideally developed by the NWN 1 builders / captains in conjunction with DMA (standards team). A starting point would naturally be the "old" NWN 1 standards (which I think have been mostly used anyway). Compliance would be demonstrated by taking the NWN 1 captains' word for it (after all, they will have had a major input in developing/tweaking the system). This means we could easily expand and give new interested builders a set of guidelines to start from, and it also means we would get to full community integration, which I think preferable to an NWN1/2 "split" - after all, I have very frequently stated that I think ALFA should be more a "brand" that purveys a certain kind of roleplaying experience, rather than to be a single-platform offering (as it officially is now). Obviously, player status would then also carry between both "branches" (as is basically the reality now, as most people playing in NWN 1 ALFA are official ALFA members with player rights).

Of course, the pressure to do anything seems low at this point, but I would hate the people who still congregate here to drift apart further, slowly or otherwise. Thus, I actually like Rick's idea of cross-platform stuff in its spirit - though it is of course a nightmare in implementation and a genuine Pandora's box.

I hope you regret having asked for my ideas already ;).
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jmecha
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Re: NWN1: Part 2

Post by jmecha »

No regrets here.
The idea of Branding ALFA as a multiplatform RP Community seems like a good one to me, and if NWNEE will attract enough awesome people that we need more structure in our NWN1 branch of ALFA then currently exist....that is not a bad promblem to have.
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Rick7475
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Re: NWN1: Part 2

Post by Rick7475 »

Veilan wrote:
jmecha wrote:What are your ideas on the matter?
Well, we basically have a gradient between two poles. I am fine as is currently (because, I think, it is what ayergo & co. find most helpful to run their servers), which is "no compliance on standards, but compliance on community conduct rules".
Well, I dispute the standards claim. While not perfect, because ayergo & co (which is ayergo and ME BTW) are DM'ing, policing, and continuously building each module, (now 3 with SP) I believe we have tried our best to maintain standards. Most of the standards issues are being brought up by the players themselves and we go in and fix the bugs. Ayergo is constantly bringing up standards shortcomings on leveling and loot and we are trying to comply. I did about 20 fixes on DF over the last month, and it probably needs more. We build new areas, test them, and fix the bugs. Part of that is ensuring the standards are met.

But we also don't have access to DM boards for Standards updates, changes and discussions. Though one of the active DM's in NWN2 is playing on WD, so hopefully she will update us once and a while.
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Re: NWN1: Part 2

Post by jmecha »

I am amazed at the work you both are putting into NWN1 and I am kinda proud the players are making an effort to police themselves.
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Veilan
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Re: NWN1: Part 2

Post by Veilan »

I believe I did not make any comment on how close the current NWN 1 modules are to "ALFA 1" standards, just that officially, there is no requirement to adhere to them (which has been used for some good ideas for bonus awards and the like). Obviously I think using them as a springboard (as happens almost automatically if your starting point is an old "ALFA 1" module) is a good idea.

In fact, my belief that the modules are pretty close is what makes me think it might even be feasible to come up with a new, evolved & evolving set that NWN 1 captains could shape and buy into.
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Re: NWN1: Part 2

Post by Rumple C »

I get where Senor T is coming from with recognizing the effort Ayergo and Rick have put in.

Right now ALFA as an organization is a skeleton of a skeleton because of member numbers. Shackling WD, SP, DF to the -oversight- of a broken administration (because numbers and key posts not being filled) is not a winner in my opinion.

Right now WD, SP, and DF work because it is a fun project for Ayergo and Rick. Once you have someone looking over their shoulder pointing out how they are doing it "wrong" it stops being fun.

Having to run every great idea ayergo and rIck have through "standards" (shudder) is a great way to kill WD, SP, DF.
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Veilan
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Re: NWN1: Part 2

Post by Veilan »

And obviously there is no middle ground, ever, where ayergo and Rick would be the guys having a major impact on those standards they wish to adhere to - especially since they are working off of them already anyway ;). I agree that currently our numbers are too small for standards to matter that much, but it always pays to have the groundwork in place rather than facing a revolution later, and letting players (and prospective new builders / server captains) know what to expect, how they can and cannot be treated, and that we strive to have a common baseline and playing experience. ALFA's history has demonstrated very well why standards are, if designed well, a boon rather than a bane - almost all major crises have been caused by a lack of accountability from certain people or groups. Having no common ground on which to base our game on is as dangerous as suffocating it with onerous, ill-designed red-tape.

It should be our ambition to design this baseline to be as robust as it needs to be and as free as possible, avoiding the pitfalls of single-gp counting as much as handing out swords of elf-slaying to the elf-hater group. Simplifications like "standards bad, HDM dicatorship good" are as ill-suited to the complexities of reality as would be "HDM freedom bad, straight-jacketing standards good".

Anyway, I should let DMA, if he so desires, address these issues within his domain; I hope my ideas and position are clear enough even if they are somewhat variegated.
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Re: NWN1: Part 2

Post by Wild Wombat »

Mick wrote:Talk less. Listen more.
Rodney King wrote:Can't we all just get along?
FDR wrote:The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
Some Smartass going by the idiotic nom de plume of Wild Wombat wrote:Since there actually does not seem to be a movement to subject Ayergo and Rick to the draconian rule of those NWN2 tyrants - Oh, the humanity! - isn't all of this discussion just wordplay?
Mike Myers wrote:My theory is that all of Scottish cuisine is based on a dare.
*whistles to himself and ambles away* :?
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