best passage about D&D by Gygax...
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best passage about D&D by Gygax...
From original Players Handbook....
"Successful play means long-lived characters, characters who will steadily, if not rapidly, gain levels. You will find that such characters become like old friends; they become almost real. Characters with stories related about their exploits- be they cleverly wrought gains or narrow escapes - bring a sense of pride and accomplishment to their players, and each new success adds to the luster and fame thus engendered."
D&D isn't about politics, or factions, or any of that bullshit.
It's about getting an adventuring group together to RP and go into the unknown, and see how far it takes you. D&D rules are about combat and exploration, RP is how far you want to take it. Myself, I prefer the unknown, exploration, combat. Those who live , share stories. Those who die, are gone in legend ( or make a new PC... OGR is great at it, for which I commend him)
Get back to basics, is all I have to say.
"Successful play means long-lived characters, characters who will steadily, if not rapidly, gain levels. You will find that such characters become like old friends; they become almost real. Characters with stories related about their exploits- be they cleverly wrought gains or narrow escapes - bring a sense of pride and accomplishment to their players, and each new success adds to the luster and fame thus engendered."
D&D isn't about politics, or factions, or any of that bullshit.
It's about getting an adventuring group together to RP and go into the unknown, and see how far it takes you. D&D rules are about combat and exploration, RP is how far you want to take it. Myself, I prefer the unknown, exploration, combat. Those who live , share stories. Those who die, are gone in legend ( or make a new PC... OGR is great at it, for which I commend him)
Get back to basics, is all I have to say.
Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
I believe the original game had rules for fighters becoming nobles and building castles and stuff.
But yes, for the most part, D&D was a game about going into dungeons and bringing out treasure.
But yes, for the most part, D&D was a game about going into dungeons and bringing out treasure.
Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
A person who did their research would firstly note that the original Player's Handbook was an expansion to a wargame.
And then would note that politics and followers were the default through 2nd edition. If your PC held still long enough, they'd just get followers, as a consequence of being so famous-- in descriptions rife with the heavily-fictionalized references to political and military leaders from antiquity.
But then your own quote doesn't actually say "to the exclusion of politics, factions, or any of that bullshit." That's just your own opinion and some creative reinterpretation that's inconsistent with the work full body of Gygax's work.
And then would note that politics and followers were the default through 2nd edition. If your PC held still long enough, they'd just get followers, as a consequence of being so famous-- in descriptions rife with the heavily-fictionalized references to political and military leaders from antiquity.
But then your own quote doesn't actually say "to the exclusion of politics, factions, or any of that bullshit." That's just your own opinion and some creative reinterpretation that's inconsistent with the work full body of Gygax's work.
Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
I don't think it really matters, as long as it's treated appropriately in terms of reward systems.
DnD RP to me has always seemed to be 80-90% focused on adventuring.
It's why 'experience' contributes to feats/hp/skills/spells, and~90% of those feats are designed to make you better in combat/adventuring. Sure the 10% can be fun and really and flavor...but the title is "dungeon" master, not a 'life" or "career" master.
I always thought that it made sense for a player to gain experience that ultimately increases your combat/adventuring prowess by...combat and adventuring.
I like the 10exp awards for good RP in taverns etc, but kinda felt it should be limited to that. Even if a particular story was full of oscar moments, if there wasn't much combat/adventuring...I always felt the exp should be kept very low. There's other rewards.
So the level of politics, castles, factions and other such "bulldust" is kinda up to the DM, but i'd hope they are about adding flavour, rather than providing training in combat (exp) for varieties of interpersonal dialogue.
And i agree that it is TOTALLY awesome flavor. We had SUCH fun building the Wayfarers compound and running that, and ultimately having it destroyed by other PCs. Of course, borgia/illialid didn't give much exp for the faction/building stuff....just for adventuring. The faction stuff was, and is, it's own reward. I hope to have one again sometime in AFLA2!
I think also we need to acknowledge that DnD was meant for a DM and ~4 players around a table. A PW opens more doors for thing like factions and we should/have embrace the extra fun it brings.
DnD RP to me has always seemed to be 80-90% focused on adventuring.
It's why 'experience' contributes to feats/hp/skills/spells, and~90% of those feats are designed to make you better in combat/adventuring. Sure the 10% can be fun and really and flavor...but the title is "dungeon" master, not a 'life" or "career" master.
I always thought that it made sense for a player to gain experience that ultimately increases your combat/adventuring prowess by...combat and adventuring.
I like the 10exp awards for good RP in taverns etc, but kinda felt it should be limited to that. Even if a particular story was full of oscar moments, if there wasn't much combat/adventuring...I always felt the exp should be kept very low. There's other rewards.
So the level of politics, castles, factions and other such "bulldust" is kinda up to the DM, but i'd hope they are about adding flavour, rather than providing training in combat (exp) for varieties of interpersonal dialogue.
And i agree that it is TOTALLY awesome flavor. We had SUCH fun building the Wayfarers compound and running that, and ultimately having it destroyed by other PCs. Of course, borgia/illialid didn't give much exp for the faction/building stuff....just for adventuring. The faction stuff was, and is, it's own reward. I hope to have one again sometime in AFLA2!
I think also we need to acknowledge that DnD was meant for a DM and ~4 players around a table. A PW opens more doors for thing like factions and we should/have embrace the extra fun it brings.
playing Nathaniel Ward - Paladin of the Morninglord and devout of Torm (cookie cutter and proud of it)
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Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
As a DM I awarded XP for all sorts of stuff. Combat challenges sure -- the higher the risk the higher the reward. But I also awarded for good story telling or solving a puzzle or trap or even figuring out the next step in a plot. It bears noting to that social interaction can carry with it tremendous risk. Talking your way out of a vampire ripping your throat out should give you lots of XP. I've even awarded players XP just for making me laugh as they played their PCs. I awarded points quite a bit for really immersive RP. I think Heegz one time awarded one of my PCs XP for NOT taking one of his hooks because it was refused by the PC on IC principal. I think that is as it should be. They are "experience points" not combat points or adventuring points.
I tend to be an "adventure RP" player. But I also enjoy all types of RP, tavern RP, political intrigue etc etc. I think that is what makes a PW a superior experience in some ways to a PnP campaign. The ability to RP free form and develop relationships and reputation without a DM, and to engage in PC generated story telling.
I tend to be an "adventure RP" player. But I also enjoy all types of RP, tavern RP, political intrigue etc etc. I think that is what makes a PW a superior experience in some ways to a PnP campaign. The ability to RP free form and develop relationships and reputation without a DM, and to engage in PC generated story telling.
Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
This.
<paazin>: internet relationships are really a great idea
Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
Yeah. . . I guess I'm just mostly a D&D minimalist, compared to most.Zelknolf wrote: That's just your own opinion and some creative reinterpretation that's inconsistent with the work full body of Gygax's work.
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Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
I liked the post SCI-kick, thanks
Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
That's fine-- if there's any accurate representation of Gygax's opinions about how people play D&D, it would be that he didn't tell people that they were playing D&D "wrong," even as grumpy nerds tried to corner him into the sort at conventions. He personally went for a lot of detail and a lot of mechanical depth, but never said it was required of others. Which is why it's pretty galling when you invoke his memory to label some people "true" D&Ders and dubbing other peoples' fun "bullshit".SCI-kick wrote:Yeah. . . I guess I'm just mostly a D&D minimalist, compared to most.
Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
You're probably right ogr.
I just tend to break things down into logical steps and can't really see his a great convo makes you get a second attack per-round. But I can be too narrow. Certainly rewarding clever play (eg NOT attacking an overwhelming encounter when you've got wis >10) is good...and I do smile when I get a reward from s fm on the rare occasion I do something clever.
Maybe it's the advancement system DnD provided just isn't ideal for non-combat RP while at the same time the rule books/creators encourage it. Hence the grumpy nerds
If there were two types of exp that'd be cool.... adventure exp, and 'life' exp with different feats abd skills....but then that's a totally new game!
I just tend to break things down into logical steps and can't really see his a great convo makes you get a second attack per-round. But I can be too narrow. Certainly rewarding clever play (eg NOT attacking an overwhelming encounter when you've got wis >10) is good...and I do smile when I get a reward from s fm on the rare occasion I do something clever.
Maybe it's the advancement system DnD provided just isn't ideal for non-combat RP while at the same time the rule books/creators encourage it. Hence the grumpy nerds
If there were two types of exp that'd be cool.... adventure exp, and 'life' exp with different feats abd skills....but then that's a totally new game!
playing Nathaniel Ward - Paladin of the Morninglord and devout of Torm (cookie cutter and proud of it)
Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
At its heart D&D is a war game. RP is pretty much optional as far as the system is concerned. 5e makes a few token attempts at including nods towards RP, but they're very much afterthoughts.
There's more modern RPGs which build RP into the system itself.
There's more modern RPGs which build RP into the system itself.
Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
Haha, sorry for the foul language. That was after a few scotches, and also I think Shank's mental state is taking over my real life mind.Zelknolf wrote:Which is why it's pretty galling when you invoke his memory to label some people "true" D&Ders and dubbing other peoples' fun "bullshit".
Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
The thing with RP is that i'ts individual. Our likes and dislikes are not the same.
What I can say is that as long as there's an attempt to be believable it works.
With most ALFA players it feels believable.
So while i'm not 100% keen on playing house (no offence) when it's done well it doesn't take away from my game.
Does it add anything? Currently, not too much. But even as just another passing scene that looks nice it's alright by me.
But I do agree with Kick, and Dorn, and OGR and Zelk... in that order though
(But not Xan, I never agree with Xan).
What I can say is that as long as there's an attempt to be believable it works.
With most ALFA players it feels believable.
So while i'm not 100% keen on playing house (no offence) when it's done well it doesn't take away from my game.
Does it add anything? Currently, not too much. But even as just another passing scene that looks nice it's alright by me.
But I do agree with Kick, and Dorn, and OGR and Zelk... in that order though
(But not Xan, I never agree with Xan).
<paazin>: internet relationships are really a great idea
Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
Kid is a really cool person.
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Re: best passage about D&D by Gygax...
I never agree with Xan, either.
I seek plunder....and succulent greens
[Wynna] Chula Lysander: [Talk] *Shakes head* I've been in worse situations. He was just....unjoyful! *stomps foot*
Retired PC's: Torquil, Gwenevere
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[Wynna] Chula Lysander: [Talk] *Shakes head* I've been in worse situations. He was just....unjoyful! *stomps foot*
Retired PC's: Torquil, Gwenevere
Former PC's: Rugo, Flora, Rory Mor