Increasing Player Activity / Density

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SCI-kick
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by SCI-kick »

FoamBats4All wrote:Your faction will get their base when you find a builder to make it, not before.

Your character will get a mansion when you find a builder to make it.

Sylvaine will get an actual interior to be Baroness of when Veilan finds a builder to make it.

No offense to anyone, and this is just my personal opinion / preference . ..

I think the last thing ALFA needs more of is "doll houses". As in places just to sit around and RP and claim as your PC's house, stronghold, etc. In all my years of NWN, NWN 2 I never once had a PC make his own personal base or mansion. Again, just one of those preferences that I never could grasp.
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Xanthea
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by Xanthea »

Player owned stuff is basically worthless if it's not driving hooks and plots.

A stronghold or whatever is fine, so long as it comes equipped with antagonists who are trying to do bad things to it. In isolation it does nothing for the server.
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by FoamBats4All »

Xanthea wrote:A stronghold or whatever is fine, so long as it comes equipped with antagonists who are trying to do bad things to it. In isolation it does nothing for the server.
Have you seen Ruqel?
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by Zelknolf »

To be fair, Ruqel comes equipped with antagonists. Political (The Council of Four), religious (Shar, Malar, Umberlee), and generic (kobolds, orcs, werewolves -- previously giants... but... I may have killed them all. >.> ).
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Lokan
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by Lokan »

I agree, there should be no expectation for someone else to build something, nor any player to play a certain way, nor any DM to use my character background as hooks for a campaign. I'm always surprised that after I'm gone from Alfa after a long time that is not burnt to the ground. Just trying to say Ill try to do my part as a DM for as far as is possible, I guess. It seems the crux to improving Alfa and keeping players falls on more DM time.
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Xanthea
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by Xanthea »

FoamBats4All wrote:
Xanthea wrote:A stronghold or whatever is fine, so long as it comes equipped with antagonists who are trying to do bad things to it. In isolation it does nothing for the server.
Have you seen Ruqel?
Yes? I stand by it. I don't think it's added anything particularly interesting to the server. The areas are pretty and well built. The statics are nice and well made, but could have been added anywhere for the same effect. But really the only effect it seems to have had is giving people a different place to stand around.

Now that's not exactly a complaint, per say, as it was self built so it's not exactly detracting from the server either. And maybe I'm missing out on all the high level secret diplomatic war plots going on. But from where I'm standing Ruqel is doing nothing to drive conflict, and conflict is the point of the game. Things exist to be threatened, and if they're not being threatened they're not doing their job as tools to move plot.
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by FoamBats4All »

If you don't see the benefit of a player-run setting in a persistent world, I don't know what to say. I think Ruqel is one of the coolest things I've ever heard of in ALFA. It may not have the highest numbers, or the best "cool, brah" moments, but as a character Teresa has a bigger impact on our world than anyone else.
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Xanthea
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by Xanthea »

Maybe it's that I've seen the concept done right before. PCs fighting tooth and nail to keep what they've built, making hard choices, sacrificing. And again maybe I'm just missing all this stuff happening, in which case disregard me. It's certainly possible that there's all sorts of exciting stuff going on behind the scenes and that's fine, plots don't need to be visible to everyone to have value.

And yes, she probably has had the biggest impact on ALFA and I don't fault her for it. But that shows how much better ALFA could be more than anything else.
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by Zelknolf »

Xanthea wrote:maybe I'm just missing all this stuff happening, in which case disregard me. It's certainly possible that there's all sorts of exciting stuff going on behind the scenes and that's fine, plots don't need to be visible to everyone to have value.
You're missing stuff going on. I'd like to say "a bunch," but that's probably not a fair assessment. It'd look impressive on a list, though it's distributed over some years. I guess that about half of them require that Ruqel have sovereignty, particularly the sort that would be resolved as matters of state and/or major problems where the highest authority to appeal to is also a PC. The questions like "What do I do with these few hundred paladins during this major conflict?" and "How do I keep this aggressive neighbor state from conquering us and/or turning us into a vassal state?" weren't answered in the hypothetical, at least.

I suppose I could crank out a long list of little dramas the place has made, too. It scuffled with Thay over their red wizards visiting Candlekeep and breaking the laws en route. Stuff like that. Less likely to be able to write a good novella about those.


The trouble is as I've posted earlier: I really suck at building player groups, so a lot of people only really hear about these struggles in the context that Tess has only unpleasant things to say about the Baldurian council.
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Xanthea
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by Xanthea »

Sure, if you say there's secret stuff going on I'll certainly believe you. Good on the people making that happen.

Even if Ruqel is worthwhile, though, I maintain that smaller scale stuff like player housing is just worthless. Though it would be funny to see people DMing the grand feud with the loud neighbours next door.
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by oldgrayrogue »

The SE Guild House in BG was very cool to have I must say. It was our base, our sanctuary, and yes there were often attempts to invade it. Cool to have P-Storage too. We also had a stuffed Illithid for a coat rack. I mean, how cool is that?


I kind of agree with Xan though on the antagonist thing, though. I always felt stuff was worth more having if you had to fight to keep it.
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by SCI-kick »

Just, my opinion. And no offense to anyone.

If anything is built in ALFA, it should be something new, and unexplored region. I really think it's a waste of time making more places to "hang out".

Dungeons & Dragons at it's core is about exploring, combat, and defeating that which opposes you and along the way developing friendships, sharing stories... Read the Players Handbook original edition:

"Successful play means long-lived characters, characters who will steadily, if not rapidly, gain levels. You will find that such characters become like old friends; they become almost real. Characters with stories related about their exploit- be they cleverly wrought gains or narrow escapes - bring a sense of pride and accomplishment to their players, and each new success adds to the luster and fame thus engendered."
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by Swift »

FoamBats4All wrote:Sylvaine will get an actual interior to be Baroness of when Veilan finds a builder to make it.
Veilan has, I just hate the toolset with a passion ;)
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by FoamBats4All »

Swift wrote:
FoamBats4All wrote:Sylvaine will get an actual interior to be Baroness of when Veilan finds a builder to make it.
Veilan has, I just hate the toolset with a passion ;)
That is, unfortunately, the case most of the time, and kind of my point. Significant server changes should probably wait to be done after there has been significant module changes. Otherwise you end up with the ever-so-common abandoned ALFA plot, or some DM saying "nah, Alustriel totally was killed and replaced with a polymorphed Ogre Magi" with no module resources there to give evidence of this to DMs (or in some cases, players).
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Re: Increasing Player Activity / Density

Post by Dorn »

Swift wrote:
FoamBats4All wrote:Sylvaine will get an actual interior to be Baroness of when Veilan finds a builder to make it.
Veilan has, I just hate the toolset with a passion ;)
I'll build it if you want. Pm me specs.
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