Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
Moderator: ALFA Administrators
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- Githyanki
- Posts: 1289
- Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:00 pm
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
Alright, I can create a Curse Voice group to work with. I have one set up and ready. Post below or PM your Curse username for an invite. Once I have a couple people in it I should be able to provide a link.
If it ends up being used we can look at a better solution.
If it ends up being used we can look at a better solution.
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- Githyanki
- Posts: 1289
- Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:00 pm
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
Added.Swift wrote:Curse nickname: Swiffer
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
Duck_One
Please
Please
Duck One
Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
- Brokenbone
- Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
- Posts: 5771
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 1:07 am
- Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
I have used Skype in ALFA but only toward the end of Ronan's Vilquari campaign. Fun to shoot the shit with good people, but I will readily say that RP immersion went down. Divided attention etc. Still, it was also easier to get the OOC questions of "WTF is going on" out of the way, rather than asking ((Wait did the map say go Southwest, your avatar briefly popped up in the SE corner and said that way, what up?))
Roll20 pnp with many of the same people, we used Roll20's native system whatever it might've been, and it was kind of crappy. So we migrated to Google hangouts, generally worked fine. Again though PnP is all about talking around a table anyhow, even if you're moving around your little tokens and drawing MSpaint maps of where your guys are at.
Voice can be fun, helps establish who is around paying attention as well if something important is afoot (i.e., "wait is Regas back, hellooooo Regas, we're finally going in the evil elf forest...")
Roll20 pnp with many of the same people, we used Roll20's native system whatever it might've been, and it was kind of crappy. So we migrated to Google hangouts, generally worked fine. Again though PnP is all about talking around a table anyhow, even if you're moving around your little tokens and drawing MSpaint maps of where your guys are at.
Voice can be fun, helps establish who is around paying attention as well if something important is afoot (i.e., "wait is Regas back, hellooooo Regas, we're finally going in the evil elf forest...")
ALFA NWN2 PCs: Rhaggot of the Bruised-Eye, and Bamshogbo
ALFA NWN1 PC: Jacobim Foxmantle
ALFA NWN1 Dead PC: Jon Shieldjack
DMA Staff
ALFA NWN1 PC: Jacobim Foxmantle
ALFA NWN1 Dead PC: Jon Shieldjack
DMA Staff
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
I am still not able to connect
Duck One
Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
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- Githyanki
- Posts: 1289
- Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:00 pm
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
Not many people seemed interested, unfortunately.Duck One wrote:This is a good illustration of why VoIP is very much needed in this community. The ability to misread the tone of text is too easily done.
With only two people asking to join there's no reason to spend time on supporting that. May as well just have a Skype group.
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- Dungeon Master
- Posts: 2021
- Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:37 am
- Location: Tarrant County, Texas
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
Your assumption is that people are playing characters that sound like them...most aren't IMO.Duck One wrote:So I can’t help but to think that some of what ALFA experiences in drama couldn’t be improved with the help of some modern networking tools. ALFA suffers from what many virtual communities suffer: distance. I am not talking about the actual miles between its members, rather that the all text medium gives a coldness and dryness to communication that lends itself from feeling disconnected from the parties on the other end.
Text is subjective. A witty play on words can equally be perceived as a sarcastic sneer depending upon the perception of the reader. Tone, inflection, emphasis…many of the subtle context clues of verbal communication can get lost in the text medium. People also tend to communicate less volume in text, not wanting to write or compel others to read too many words, which means the result may come across lacking detail and lead to perception of a curt or abrasive result not necessarily intended.
Verbal communication is far more sophisticated. It can convey emotion without narration, which can entirely alter the meaning of the communication through the audience’s perception of the speaker. Verbal communication also tends to be more volume; people talk and listen much more quickly than they type or read, and more gets done in a smaller span of time.
I play other kinds of games too. I like first person shooters for the action and stress release it gives. Those games have groups (clans) which form for competing and organization. It may shock you to learn that they suffer from the same tendencies of all such groups: politics and bickering. (see, that was sarcasm but unless I put additional text to imply that here, you wouldn’t necessarily know) They would have flame wars on their forums, and people getting upset and leaving, etc. But an interesting thing happened over the years as the medium evolved: Voice over IP.
FPS gamers found it immensely helpful to talk to facilitate teamwork. When the tools like Ventrilo and Roger Wilco and Teamspeak came into the picture, the communication went from emails and BBS forum postings to virtual voice rooms, the flame wars changed. They were somehow calmer and resolution seemed to come more quickly and easily. And much of acrimony and bitterness seemed to ease significantly. Oh sure, there are still politics and disagreements, but they seem to be less severe and resolve more quickly when you get into a voice chat room and talk it out.
It’s easy to shrug and write some flame on the forum knowing you’re likely to only get some bits of text from cyberspace in response, but you might think twice about being so degrading when you know you’re going to hear the hurt or anger in their voice in immediate response. It is amazing how dramatically your perception of someone changes when they evolve from flat text in a forum post to the vibrant sound of a real person. It humanizes them, and makes them more immediate and close.
There are also practical benefits to such real time VoIP too. They can be structured to have private rooms so that DM’s and players can segregate themselves into adventure parties. More can communicated quickly, this can eliminate some of the confusion that text can leave. You can agree to leave all the in character stuff on the screen, and take all the out of character administrative stuff to voice.
I humbly suggest that ALFA consider adding real time VoIP as part of its community communication. Imagine how it might change your perception of some of the conversations that happen, and the people with whom you interact. Does Duck have a southern accent and snorts when he laughs? Does Wynna have a warm sultry voice, or a nasally shrill voice? Does Heegz’s talking remind you of that bitter old man down the street who keeps yelling at the kids to stay off his lawn?
I think that adding real time voice communication could be a valuable tool in the gaming experience, and go a long way in bringing the community closer, thereby avoiding some of the drama. Give it some consideration.
As a player I began to expand my PC repertoire years ago by going 50/50 male/female with PC's. It was surprisingly fun and helped me get out of my own personality and to develop and immerse in a separate, unique personality for my PC's.
I can't sound female.
I should note, however, that none of my male PC's ever had my voice to begin with that I can recall...the setting just isn't Texas.
Personally I like the challenge of developing a voice via text...it's part of the unique RP potential of NWN.
Having said all that, I understand that voip could be helpful for some players, but it clearly wouldn't work for very many or DM's who supply voices for multiple NPCs of both genders constantly.
Voip for chat or forums...sure.
Voip for ingame...nope.
I seek plunder....and succulent greens
[Wynna] Chula Lysander: [Talk] *Shakes head* I've been in worse situations. He was just....unjoyful! *stomps foot*
Retired PC's: Torquil, Gwenevere
Former PC's: Rugo, Flora, Rory Mor
[Wynna] Chula Lysander: [Talk] *Shakes head* I've been in worse situations. He was just....unjoyful! *stomps foot*
Retired PC's: Torquil, Gwenevere
Former PC's: Rugo, Flora, Rory Mor
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
If you've play PnP, you're sitting in the same room, and can't help but to see the face and hear the voice of the real people there. It was always part of the game. That said, my idea was more for player-to-player, not character-to-character. A huge fraction of the communication that needs to happen here is out of character, working around issues with the interface, planning to meet up out of character, asking clarifying questions....a whole lot of green text that would go faster and smoother without typing. There is also the bigger part of the communication out of the game entirely, here in the forums, in IRC chat. So many arguments and misunderstandings might be solved without the flatness of text. That is the biggest problem that we might solve. We are more than just characters. We are players...real people with real voices. This community might be tighter if we brought more closeness to it.johnlewismcleod wrote:
Your assumption is that people are playing characters that sound like them...most aren't IMO.
As a player I began to expand my PC repertoire years ago by going 50/50 male/female with PC's. It was surprisingly fun and helped me get out of my own personality and to develop and immerse in a separate, unique personality for my PC's.
I can't sound female.
I should note, however, that none of my male PC's ever had my voice to begin with that I can recall...the setting just isn't Texas.
Personally I like the challenge of developing a voice via text...it's part of the unique RP potential of NWN.
Having said all that, I understand that voip could be helpful for some players, but it clearly wouldn't work for very many or DM's who supply voices for multiple NPCs of both genders constantly.
Voip for chat or forums...sure.
Voip for ingame...nope.
Duck One
Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
- Ithildur
- Dungeon Master
- Posts: 3548
- Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:46 am
- Location: Best pizza town in the universe
- Contact:
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
I think there's a degree of shyness that's not entirely hard to understand for some folks who've been interacting for years via online text. Plus old habits aren't easy to change; irc has been firmly entrenched as the main form of non forum communication here for over a decade, after all.
It's still a good idea with merit (for ooc communication) whether it takes or not, or just takes time. I'd say get a handful of folks who want in and start using it via the most easily/widely accessible means and if it takes, it takes. If it doesn't, not the end of the world.
It's still a good idea with merit (for ooc communication) whether it takes or not, or just takes time. I'd say get a handful of folks who want in and start using it via the most easily/widely accessible means and if it takes, it takes. If it doesn't, not the end of the world.
Formerly: Aglaril Shaelara, Faerun's unlikeliest Bladesinger
Current main: Ky - something
It’s not the critic who counts...The credit belongs to the man who actually is in the arena, who strives violently, who errs and comes up short again and again...who if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement, but who if he fails, fails while daring greatly.-T. Roosevelt
Current main: Ky - something
It’s not the critic who counts...The credit belongs to the man who actually is in the arena, who strives violently, who errs and comes up short again and again...who if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement, but who if he fails, fails while daring greatly.-T. Roosevelt
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- Dungeon Master
- Posts: 2021
- Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:37 am
- Location: Tarrant County, Texas
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
Yeah...I get what you're saying, Duck, but NWN allowed us to take a step beyond pen and paper and actually develop immersive RP that was never possible with PnP.Duck One wrote:If you've play PnP, you're sitting in the same room, and can't help but to see the face and hear the voice of the real people there. It was always part of the game. That said, my idea was more for player-to-player, not character-to-character. A huge fraction of the communication that needs to happen here is out of character, working around issues with the interface, planning to meet up out of character, asking clarifying questions....a whole lot of green text that would go faster and smoother without typing. There is also the bigger part of the communication out of the game entirely, here in the forums, in IRC chat. So many arguments and misunderstandings might be solved without the flatness of text. That is the biggest problem that we might solve. We are more than just characters. We are players...real people with real voices. This community might be tighter if we brought more closeness to it.
For me, that's what got me hooked on ALFA, extraneous OOC chat should be as limited as possible, not increased.
I can see it being helpful in the forums and/or chatrooms, but I think it would detract from RP ingame.
I seek plunder....and succulent greens
[Wynna] Chula Lysander: [Talk] *Shakes head* I've been in worse situations. He was just....unjoyful! *stomps foot*
Retired PC's: Torquil, Gwenevere
Former PC's: Rugo, Flora, Rory Mor
[Wynna] Chula Lysander: [Talk] *Shakes head* I've been in worse situations. He was just....unjoyful! *stomps foot*
Retired PC's: Torquil, Gwenevere
Former PC's: Rugo, Flora, Rory Mor
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
Okay, I set up a small Ventrilo Server:
Hostname
vent131.light-speed.com
Port
15095
You can get the client here:
http://www.ventrilo.com/download.php
The server password is set to be the player password
Join me if you want to talk
Hostname
vent131.light-speed.com
Port
15095
You can get the client here:
http://www.ventrilo.com/download.php
The server password is set to be the player password
Join me if you want to talk
Duck One
Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
Last night I had the opportunity to finally meet Boombrakh. Oh, I’ve “known” him for a long time…that is to say I’ve known him in the sense that most people know must other people in ALFA, as cold sterile bits of text in cyberspace. And from those bits of text over the years I formed impressions and conclusions about the moniker “Boom” and how I felt about him. I am sure he had impressions of me, like we all do about one another in this text-only medium we call ALFA. It is the only form of connection we have.
But then last night he wandered into my new Ventrilo server and introduced himself. It was like getting a telephone call from an old neighbor…the one down the street you never really met but had formed impressions based upon their color choice in siding and how well the garden was kept. What do you know? He was not very much like the mental image I had formed. The sound, the tone, the character of the way he spoke; he was suddenly human. In 2 hours I learned more about a real person than I had in years of sharing space in ALFA
We had a good long conversation, and I found so much more commonality with him than I had known before. I could tell he had walked away with a whole new impression of me as well. It’s the kind of personal bonding you get with a pen-and-paper game, passing around the pizza box and making jokes not entirely related to the game. D&D was born a social game, one that doesn’t really compete with each other but shares a common experience of enjoying moments of adventure. ALFA could use a lot more of that part of the experience.
I urge all of you to stop by and introduce yourself. You don’t have to use your real name, and you’ll find that I am Duck in there too. And you don’t have to talk if you’re not comfortable, perhaps just listen at first. There is text as well. But maybe by listening and hearing the stories and anecdotes, you’ll have an epiphany like I did last night. ALFA needs to be a community, and this may help.
But then last night he wandered into my new Ventrilo server and introduced himself. It was like getting a telephone call from an old neighbor…the one down the street you never really met but had formed impressions based upon their color choice in siding and how well the garden was kept. What do you know? He was not very much like the mental image I had formed. The sound, the tone, the character of the way he spoke; he was suddenly human. In 2 hours I learned more about a real person than I had in years of sharing space in ALFA
We had a good long conversation, and I found so much more commonality with him than I had known before. I could tell he had walked away with a whole new impression of me as well. It’s the kind of personal bonding you get with a pen-and-paper game, passing around the pizza box and making jokes not entirely related to the game. D&D was born a social game, one that doesn’t really compete with each other but shares a common experience of enjoying moments of adventure. ALFA could use a lot more of that part of the experience.
I urge all of you to stop by and introduce yourself. You don’t have to use your real name, and you’ll find that I am Duck in there too. And you don’t have to talk if you’re not comfortable, perhaps just listen at first. There is text as well. But maybe by listening and hearing the stories and anecdotes, you’ll have an epiphany like I did last night. ALFA needs to be a community, and this may help.
Duck One
Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
Bork bork.
Heero just pawn in game of life.
12.August.2013: Never forget.
15.December.2014: Never forget.
The Glorious 12.August.2015: Always Remember the Glorious 12th.
12.August.2013: Never forget.
15.December.2014: Never forget.
The Glorious 12.August.2015: Always Remember the Glorious 12th.
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- Githyanki
- Posts: 1289
- Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:00 pm
Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen
I went in, but only saw "Tavern" "Party" and "DM" rooms. It sounds like a lot of us have no interest in using Vent ICly, and only would want to use it OOCly. Certainly, I've no interest in joining any of the available rooms (granted, I don't think this will get a lot of traction anyway).