Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

This is a general open discussion for all ALFA, Neverwinter Nights, and Dungeons & Dragons topics.

Moderator: ALFA Administrators

Would you use voice chat through Mumble or Ventrilo?

Yes
15
52%
No
14
48%
 
Total votes: 29

User avatar
Duck One
Orc Champion
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:51 am
Location: Indiana (EST)
Contact:

Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by Duck One »

So I can’t help but to think that some of what ALFA experiences in drama couldn’t be improved with the help of some modern networking tools. ALFA suffers from what many virtual communities suffer: distance. I am not talking about the actual miles between its members, rather that the all text medium gives a coldness and dryness to communication that lends itself from feeling disconnected from the parties on the other end.

Text is subjective. A witty play on words can equally be perceived as a sarcastic sneer depending upon the perception of the reader. Tone, inflection, emphasis…many of the subtle context clues of verbal communication can get lost in the text medium. People also tend to communicate less volume in text, not wanting to write or compel others to read too many words, which means the result may come across lacking detail and lead to perception of a curt or abrasive result not necessarily intended.

Verbal communication is far more sophisticated. It can convey emotion without narration, which can entirely alter the meaning of the communication through the audience’s perception of the speaker. Verbal communication also tends to be more volume; people talk and listen much more quickly than they type or read, and more gets done in a smaller span of time.

I play other kinds of games too. I like first person shooters for the action and stress release it gives. Those games have groups (clans) which form for competing and organization. It may shock you to learn that they suffer from the same tendencies of all such groups: politics and bickering. (see, that was sarcasm but unless I put additional text to imply that here, you wouldn’t necessarily know) They would have flame wars on their forums, and people getting upset and leaving, etc. But an interesting thing happened over the years as the medium evolved: Voice over IP.

FPS gamers found it immensely helpful to talk to facilitate teamwork. When the tools like Ventrilo and Roger Wilco and Teamspeak came into the picture, the communication went from emails and BBS forum postings to virtual voice rooms, the flame wars changed. They were somehow calmer and resolution seemed to come more quickly and easily. And much of acrimony and bitterness seemed to ease significantly. Oh sure, there are still politics and disagreements, but they seem to be less severe and resolve more quickly when you get into a voice chat room and talk it out.

It’s easy to shrug and write some flame on the forum knowing you’re likely to only get some bits of text from cyberspace in response, but you might think twice about being so degrading when you know you’re going to hear the hurt or anger in their voice in immediate response. It is amazing how dramatically your perception of someone changes when they evolve from flat text in a forum post to the vibrant sound of a real person. It humanizes them, and makes them more immediate and close.

There are also practical benefits to such real time VoIP too. They can be structured to have private rooms so that DM’s and players can segregate themselves into adventure parties. More can communicated quickly, this can eliminate some of the confusion that text can leave. You can agree to leave all the in character stuff on the screen, and take all the out of character administrative stuff to voice.

I humbly suggest that ALFA consider adding real time VoIP as part of its community communication. Imagine how it might change your perception of some of the conversations that happen, and the people with whom you interact. Does Duck have a southern accent and snorts when he laughs? Does Wynna have a warm sultry voice, or a nasally shrill voice? Does Heegz’s talking remind you of that bitter old man down the street who keeps yelling at the kids to stay off his lawn?

I think that adding real time voice communication could be a valuable tool in the gaming experience, and go a long way in bringing the community closer, thereby avoiding some of the drama. Give it some consideration.
Last edited by FoamBats4All on Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added poll.
Duck One

Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
Zelknolf
Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
Posts: 6139
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:04 pm

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by Zelknolf »

There are some downsides to this-- namely that it won't reach the whole community. Not all of us can use voice chat.

It does make those who participate feel closer and feel more communal, sure, and we have some groups that voice chat to each other and have that result-- but the cost is that it excludes people who aren't excluded by the nature of play.
User avatar
Ithildur
Dungeon Master
Posts: 3548
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:46 am
Location: Best pizza town in the universe
Contact:

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by Ithildur »

You could say the same about irc to some extent though, Zelk.

It's an interesting idea and there's merit to the notion that typed text behind the anonymity of the 'net often does fall short. Lately I find myself repeatedly counting to ten and reminding myself 'this person probably isn't as big a jerk as they're coming across based on reading what they typed'... :?

Which reminds me... my first interaction ever with Zelk in irc back in 2005 or so, I was utterly convinced she was a sociopath or even psychotic and nearly decided to stay away from a community where such a person was tolerated and even held influence in (Misty talked me out of it). Kind of amusing in retrospect, but I think it confirms my/Duck's thoughts on the failings of online text.
Formerly: Aglaril Shaelara, Faerun's unlikeliest Bladesinger
Current main: Ky - something

It’s not the critic who counts...The credit belongs to the man who actually is in the arena, who strives violently, who errs and comes up short again and again...who if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement, but who if he fails, fails while daring greatly.-T. Roosevelt
Zelknolf
Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
Posts: 6139
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:04 pm

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by Zelknolf »

I do know that some people can't use IRC; I assert that they're the same people who can't play in ALFA, because the prerequisite is typing and reading.

And you've got a bad example there: I also didn't have a recordable voice ten years ago. Being a community primarily on voice chat would've exaggerated your sense.
FoamBats4All
Githyanki
Posts: 1289
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:00 pm

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by FoamBats4All »

As a note, IRC will become less of a technical burden with the new website. It'd be kind of impossible for IRC to be difficult for anyone then.

Still, voices are nice for various things. There's a reason I've invested time in making videos, doing ALFA livestreams for Q/A and tutorials, etc., and why I've Skyped people. It is, however, more exclusive. Sometimes I don't want to talk to people, I want to listen to music. But I also want to poke in to chat without clashing audio. IRC being dead because most people do voice, when I don't want to do voice, sucks.
User avatar
Duck One
Orc Champion
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:51 am
Location: Indiana (EST)
Contact:

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by Duck One »

One further point of clarity: adding VoIP would not replace all text communication, nor would it necessarily be a required component for all situations. For those situations where text is necessary, it can still be used. VoIP would just be an option; one which I think could add a lot to the overall experience.
Duck One

Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
Zelknolf
Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
Posts: 6139
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:04 pm

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by Zelknolf »

Well, if it's only for some people some of the time, just set it up and share it with folk? That's what we've had in the past; seemed to work out for those people.
FoamBats4All
Githyanki
Posts: 1289
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:00 pm

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by FoamBats4All »

I know Snow-levels of nothing about VoIP software. If someone figures out which to use and does as vote for it, I'll add links to the website and such to help support it.
User avatar
Ithildur
Dungeon Master
Posts: 3548
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:46 am
Location: Best pizza town in the universe
Contact:

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by Ithildur »

Yeah, it's just an idea as an added/alternative, not replacement for irc I'm sure.

I've actually been reluctant about skyping with folks in the past for various reasons, but there definitely have been many times I thought 'If I'd heard the tone of xyz being said by Joe with a friendly chuckle rather than just text, I probably wouldn't have concluded they were horrible human beings unfit to pass on their genetic code.'

Whatever works to foster community/help folks get along/work out conflicts more smoothly is a boon, especially these days. The long prevailing sentiment of 'f*ck them, I'll just stay away from Joe and all his cronies because reasons and I'll be perfectly happy with my pals' isn't going to work out well as a general attitude long term with a smaller community (and definitely contributes to the demise of larger ones as well).
Last edited by Ithildur on Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Formerly: Aglaril Shaelara, Faerun's unlikeliest Bladesinger
Current main: Ky - something

It’s not the critic who counts...The credit belongs to the man who actually is in the arena, who strives violently, who errs and comes up short again and again...who if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement, but who if he fails, fails while daring greatly.-T. Roosevelt
User avatar
Duck One
Orc Champion
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:51 am
Location: Indiana (EST)
Contact:

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by Duck One »

FoamBats4All wrote:I know Snow-levels of nothing about VoIP software. If someone figures out which to use and does as vote for it, I'll add links to the website and such to help support it.
Ventrilo and Teamspeak are the big ones for FPS gamers. Teamspeak offers a free version which can be run on a server for a very limited number of people at once (8?). All Ventrilo servers have to be rented, but the cost is very nominal (FPS gamers are broke too). Mumble is gaining popularity. I think in order for it to really take root, there would have to be some level of support from the ALFA admin. Configuration of private rooms, banning of problematic users, etc...requires administration.

A year for a 25 slot Vent server costs about $84.
Last edited by Duck One on Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Duck One

Some guy who used to do some work 'round here.
FoamBats4All
Githyanki
Posts: 1289
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:00 pm

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by FoamBats4All »

I can look into it more when I get home. What I'm reading is if we hosted ourselves and didn't go through a reseller, it'd be like $15/year. Not bad. Free versions of VoIP like Mumble are available. It looks like we could set up a free Mumble server to try it out.

Also, have a poll. OP updated with one.
Zelknolf
Chosen of Forumamus, God of Forums
Posts: 6139
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:04 pm

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by Zelknolf »

Do we know what kind of bandwidth that would use? I can't imagine there'd be much disk I/O for something of the sort (unless we actually do break out our black hats and handlebar moustaches and start answering to "Snidley" ... or the server software has memory leaks), but if the market is at all functional*, I would bet that the cost of resources + the cost of software would be closer to $80/yr.


* a dubious assumption, I know. See also: every politician pretending to be an economist.
User avatar
oldgrayrogue
Retired
Posts: 3284
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:09 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by oldgrayrogue »

The suggestion is a good one for the resolution of disputes. Others have used it in campaigns to facilitate real time communication within a group, especially during combat, and it works well. For me it is immersion breaking in game. Also, I tend to play after everyone else in my home is asleep, so its a no go for me.
User avatar
Heero
Beholder
Posts: 1930
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:52 pm

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by Heero »

I would. Yall deserve the right to hear my manly voice. It will instill confidence into each and every one of you.

Edit: With the caveat that I refuse to participate in any voice chat involving a native son or daughter of the land of Australia. Abiding that accent is not something Im willing to endure. Sorry, Le Rump.
Heero just pawn in game of life.

12.August.2013: Never forget.
15.December.2014: Never forget.

The Glorious 12.August.2015: Always Remember the Glorious 12th.
User avatar
Heero
Beholder
Posts: 1930
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:52 pm

Re: Sometimes better to be heard and not seen

Post by Heero »

Skyping with boom, puny, matti, edgar, and the other Swedes has always been fun, if for no other reason than all the borking.
Heero just pawn in game of life.

12.August.2013: Never forget.
15.December.2014: Never forget.

The Glorious 12.August.2015: Always Remember the Glorious 12th.
Post Reply