Elections?

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Rumple C
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Re: Elections?

Post by Rumple C »

I thought CD would be better in the role, its true. I also think its a shitty job I wouldn't wish on my friend.

Or I may just have done it to watch the world burn
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kid
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Re: Elections?

Post by kid »

Swift wrote:
HEEGZ wrote:People have always been allowed to change their votes.
From my recollection, they have only been able to change it if a technical issue caused their vote to be registered in a way not consistent with who they actually chose. Not liking the way the wind has started to blow after you have voted was never a valid reason. Again, this is all from my own recollection.
That was what I thought as well.
So one last time:

1. Our IA makes a decision he has no authority to make.
2. Such decision has no precedent.
3. The decision wins the election for the IA's friend.
4. Our admins choose not to apologize for an honest mistake and correct it, but to justify the unlawful decision, ranging between "Fuck you, i'll do it again" (IA) "We always did it, and it's not important" (LA) and "It might be tampering not to tamper with elections" (TA), leaving us with the following conclusions:
  • a. Our rules do not apply to our admins. They are held to lower standards than the rest of us.
    b. Our admins would rather leave us with a newly invented flawed voting system rather than admit a mistake. Placing their own good and ego over the common good.
    c. If you can manipulate things mechanically, you're allowed to do it, regardless of questions of authority.
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Zelknolf
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Re: Elections?

Post by Zelknolf »

Points 1-3 are entirely wrong. Once again, it was HEEGZ's authority; Foam is merely mechanical in this. I'm going to keep repeating that until you get it. HEEGZ ran the election. HEEGZ saying that it's OK is what makes it fly.

You also seem to have entirely failed to take my meaning-- I was pointing out that admin are entirely fucked regardless. If admin refused to change the vote, then it's suppressing the will of the people, and we have the exact same thread about how wrong it is to fail to pick a candidate by the obvious majority opinion. Maybe different people bitching, but there's still no winning; as soon as Rumple asked, there was going to be this thread, and someone was going to flounce for it. At least here, we got who the most people asked for.
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Re: Elections?

Post by SwordSaintMusashi »

It's not worth responding to him anymore. He's gone from what he thought was making a point to picking up a quote that was recollection from swift (incorrect recollection at that, as the ability to change the vote has been a thing since I have been a member) to calling people dummies. Let him rage about his perceived slight and move on with your day/week/month.
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shad0wfax
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Re: Elections?

Post by shad0wfax »

Thread locked.

Read the Charter carefully and thoroughly, from a legal perspective rather than from a perspective of personal opinion.

If any violations of the Charter are suspected, there is a provisiom in the Charter that can be used to address any such violations.

Feel free to forward any legitimate complaints of improper execution of Administrative action to any Admin or Admin Staff with a direct quote of the Charter section that is relevant.

CloudDancing, MaskedIllusion, and maxcell are all administrative vote LA Staff Heads.

I'm sure that between the defeated candidate, the TA who supported her, and the PA who has stayed out of this increasingly vocal thread entirely, there is a high likelihood of a net impartiality if there is a legitimate concern.

Again, any and all members are encouraged to report Charter and Rule violations to any member of the Admin and LA Staff Heads.
FoamBats4All
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Re: Elections?

Post by FoamBats4All »

Charter wrote:Lead Administrator (LA) — Oversight of Administration, Veto & Referral Authority, Election Oversight, and Public Relations. Also responsible for resolving disputes over domain classification of any particular issue.
There's plenty of right for the LA to handle election oversight.

However, forum handling is IA, not LA. This is not an election, but an election discussion. I may passionately disagree with Kid, but there's a right to discuss things.

Enjoy your drama fest, Kid. You've a right to voice your concern, as much as Rumple had his right to voice his vote. I look forward to when this thread finally dies, either by devolving to a point where moderation is warranted or by fading.

Thread unlocked.
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kid
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Re: Elections?

Post by kid »

So we have a few saying it's only allowed if you mis-click and have technical difficulties, a few others saying it was always a right... yet no one is able to tell us when it has happened, and where does the right stem from.
(Clearly this is a wonderful way to run an election when not even our veteran member can agree what are the rules for the elections... for me, I've never known or heard a vote change is possible, i've never seen it and it is not in our rules)
Yet not one is seemed bothered by it? No one sees how open for abuse this is?

If it's a right why isn't there a toggle instead of a click? The click is final, the design makes it final.
It could have been made in any different way that allows a vote change mechanically without the need to PM an Admin, yet it was not.

At most this is a privilege that requires approval, and previously was approved only for technical issues (or so some claim... and do not prove) Giving such a special approval by AI (We keep saying HEEGZ's oversight, but that oversight was in hindsight) in a way that gives his friend the win, screams tampering to high haven.

The AI already agreed to preform the vote change, and did it openly. It was not HEEGZ that approved it, that much is clear.
That's kinda like a DM approving for a level one rebuild than bringing it to this HDM some time after to approve it in hindsight... Well, after his buddy already used the new build to CvC his nemesis.
Then the HDM says it was okay, and we're all fine with it?

I assume that some of you would be peeved if that happened. I'd even assume some of you would be peeved if everything that happened here would have happened in the exact same way, but you just change the names of the admins from HEEGZ and Foam to AK and Boom.
If they would have pulled something like this... Gods have mercy.

If we're so open and honest please correct me, and tell me how it went down, instead of deflecting and arguing around the points.
Show me one place where it says this is allowed...
bring me just one precedent for a vote change granted by reasons that are not technical,
one precedent of it being approved by an AI and not by the LA.

Do any of that and I'll apologize to you all and say nothing further.
I would hazard a guess that you cannot.
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Heero
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Re: Elections?

Post by Heero »

kid, everyone understands your point. I just think most of us have come to expect this sort of thing and are able to shrug it off then move on. Youre not going to win this argument, sorry to say.
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shad0wfax
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Re: Elections?

Post by shad0wfax »

On a far more serious note, is there a way to hide the current vote count of a poll until it closes?
FoamBats4All
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Re: Elections?

Post by FoamBats4All »

shad0wfax wrote:On a far more serious note, is there a way to hide the current vote count of a poll until it closes?
Eh... not cleanly. We can maybe look at a new polling system after the new site transition (which is still in the work, and took up a lot of time this weekend. The whole reason I'm visiting the forums on weekdays now is because I've been RDPing in at home to get web site stuff checked off).

I mean, we can mask ALL polls easily enough, but that's not what we want to do.
shad0wfax
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Re: Elections?

Post by shad0wfax »

FoamBats4All wrote:I mean, we can mask ALL polls easily enough, but that's not what we want to do.
Yes, we definitely want some polls visible but I do believe that having an election poll hidden while in progress and then the total voted revealed after it closes is an idea that has some merit and further adds to the Charter's intent of anonymity without requiring a Charter amendment.
FoamBats4All
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Re: Elections?

Post by FoamBats4All »

shad0wfax wrote:
FoamBats4All wrote:I mean, we can mask ALL polls easily enough, but that's not what we want to do.
Yes, we definitely want some polls visible but I do believe that having an election poll hidden while in progress and then the total voted revealed after it closes is an idea that has some merit and further adds to the Charter's intent of anonymity without requiring a Charter amendment.
It's not practical infrastructure-wise until we are transitioned to the new website. Happy to untable the discussion once we're over.
shad0wfax
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Re: Elections?

Post by shad0wfax »

FoamBats4All wrote:It's not practical infrastructure-wise until we are transitioned to the new website. Happy to untable the discussion once we're over.
That was the context of my suggestion and probably the only point with any merit worth discussing related to voting mechanics.
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kid
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Re: Elections?

Post by kid »

kid wrote:If we're so open and honest please correct me, and tell me how it went down, instead of deflecting and arguing around the points.
Show me one place where it says this is allowed...
bring me just one precedent for a vote change granted by reasons that are not technical,
one precedent of it being approved by an AI and not by the LA.

Do any of that and I'll apologize to you all and say nothing further.
I would hazard a guess that you cannot.
While I am amused and impressed by the attempts to change the subject,
(as well as the new laughable, so wonderfully abuse-able toggle vote system you have invented instead of admitting a mistake....)
Are you capable of a answering these questions?
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Zelknolf
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Re: Elections?

Post by Zelknolf »

You've refused to take the word of the person who approved the election as proof of approval of the election, the rationales for changed historically-change votes were not posted and probably won't be released, and the action you're demanding can't be taken without revising the charter. You've moved the goal posts as to be completely unreachable-- so, congrats! You "win" -- in that you've cowered behind fallacy until it was impossible to respond anymore.

Everyone has given up-- so you've got options: become another do-nothing shitmouth, flounce, or conjure a strategy wherein our terrible terrible voting system isn't too screwed for you to get elected, run for LA in six months, and change it.
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