"New" user experience

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Duck One
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"New" user experience

Post by Duck One »

So last night I had the opportunity to play for the first time in 9 years or so. It was a mixed experience, and I thought you all might appreciate some feedback.

Minus:

Of the 3 hours I spent in the game, I managed just 10 minutes of actual adventure. Granted some of that was learning the interface, getting comfortable with the controls, and making decisions about how to build the characters (yes, that is plural on purpose…I died twice). But a healthy fraction of that time was reallocating 48 skill points 1 point at a time through ALFA’s required skill customization for each character I created. And another large portion of it was wandering around (at walking pace) trying to find content. It felt like a lot of tedium for not a lot of adventure.

ALFA is brutally lethal. The three little quests I took involved killing a single low level creature (clearly designed as beginner’s quests), and both were quite enough. I quickly crunched the numbers based upon the combat logs (yes yes, I do analytical work for a living), and the odds of surviving to level two seem impossibly long if this is typical of beginner content. I like a challenge as much as the next guy, but it is quite frustrating to spend that much time customizing a character to have it meet such a swift and largely certain end.

I never met anyone in game. I traded IM’s with another player somewhere on the server, but never saw him nor a DM.

Neutral:

Not sure if the skywings client extension bit is really needed? It didn’t seem to do anything that I could discern as far as the player experience is concerned, and it added a lot of confusion – extra windows, not clear how to use it. (Note your link for this is also broken, and I had to surf to find it.)

Plus:

ALFA made it relatively easy to find the software (two of your three links no longer work – Gamestop and Gamersgate go nowhere). I downloaded from Good Old Games fairly quickly. (note that GoG doesn’t make it patently obvious how to get the multiplayer CD keys, so maybe a note there to clarify how that is done might be helpful.)

The automatic push of the custom files is quite nice. I am glad that the old process of finding and installing haq files is not needed.

The people in the IRC channel were helpful in getting me through some of the more confusing points. Maybe intentionally direct people here as part of the “how to get going” process.

The server looked very nice and a fair bit of attention to detail was present.

Summary:

I am an ALFA vet who knew a lot of what to expect. I expected some challenges and a bit of effort, but even with that perspective I walked away a bit disappointed and somewhat frustrated. I’ll try keep my mind open in the next opportunity, but thought I’d share the first blush while it was fresh in my mind.
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dergon darkhelm
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by dergon darkhelm »

Roll a dorf! Come play with me at Citadel Felbarr!


((Thanks for the input )) :)
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kid
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by kid »

To be fair there's a lot of content for low levels, less for a single low level but that's understandable...
There's the "introduction to Baldur's" gate" one which is nice, kinda long and doesn't have to really involve combat till later stages.
There's also mail runs, which are kinda long and can be tedious but reward you with an easy way to level two.
If you played on TSM though, it could be a little bit harder to solo some of the beginner stuff.

But to sum up, to really enjoy the game...
There's either that...
dergon darkhelm wrote:Roll a dorf! Come play with me at Citadel Felbarr!
A game for dorf run by HEEGZ at Felbarr...

Or... quite possibly even better...
http://www.alandfaraway.info/phpBB3/vie ... &hilit=OGR
New level 1-2 group on BG, full of old folk who likely can't game for long hours.
DM'd by... Heegz again? maybe Mick, whoever.
I'll throw in some DMing this way here and there if i'm on.
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Heero
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by Heero »

Alfa is a place for the patient. Its a lonely, dull place if you are alone, and, as Ive learned repeatedly, its better to just log on out if you find yourself all by yourself.
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Ithildur
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by Ithildur »

It's pretty simple, most alfa vets should know this. Most of the static quests that involve combat are not meant to be soloed by low levels. Even a lowly kobold can get a lucky crit and end the career of a solo lowbie.

Even taking one other person with you will make a huge difference; this is by design.
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CloudDancing
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by CloudDancing »

Find a party to play with. Otherwise things can be eternally lethal and boring.
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by shad0wfax »

Duck One wrote:[...] a healthy fraction of that time was reallocating 48 skill points 1 point at a time through ALFA’s required skill customization for each character I created.
This is an opportunity for improvement.
Duck One wrote:[...]ALFA is brutally lethal.
This is the spirit of our Pillars. ALFA has permadeath. ALFA follows D&D. D&D is brutally lethal if you try to solo as well. A 20 can kill any level 1, with the right weapon and damage roll.
Duck One wrote:[...] the odds of surviving to level two seem impossibly long if this is typical of beginner content.
Some servers are tougher at lower levels than others. BG has a bit more of an easy low-level quest experience than TSM does, but BG can also be far more lethal at mid-levels than TSM can if you're a solo explorer who ventures just a bit off of the beaten path.

ALFA is meant to be played in a party of two at a minimum and 3-5 as the ideal.
Duck One wrote:[...]Not sure if the skywings client extension bit is really needed? It didn’t seem to do anything that I could discern as far as the player experience is concerned, and it added a lot of confusion – extra windows, not clear how to use it. (Note your link for this is also broken, and I had to surf to find it.)
Which link specifically is broken?

As for the CE itself, it adds improvements such as full-screen windowed mode for smooth alt-tabbing at full resolution, improved networking, improved stability, a minimap that you can drive your character with, and a chat window that allows for copy/pasting into it, a much larger chat buffer including line breaks in long emotes/posts, and the ability to up-arrow and down-arrow to cycle through chat history. There are many more features, but these are some of the most useful.
Duck One wrote:[...]ALFA made it relatively easy to find the software (two of your three links no longer work – Gamestop and Gamersgate go nowhere). I downloaded from Good Old Games fairly quickly. (note that GoG doesn’t make it patently obvious how to get the multiplayer CD keys, so maybe a note there to clarify how that is done might be helpful.)
Thanks for the feedback. If you have detailed notes of how you got it to work, you could add them to our wiki, or share them with us so that we can update our wiki.
Duck One wrote:[...]The server looked very nice and a fair bit of attention to detail was present.
Which server?
Duck One wrote:[...]I am an ALFA vet who knew a lot of what to expect. I expected some challenges and a bit of effort, but even with that perspective I walked away a bit disappointed and somewhat frustrated. I’ll try keep my mind open in the next opportunity, but thought I’d share the first blush while it was fresh in my mind.
I'm curious which server this was. Lethality should not have come as a surprise to an ALFA veteran.
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by Zelknolf »

If you're keen on playing for the static content, I'd recommend starting on BG and then making a life between BG and TSM once you've acquired some levels. You're correct that the odds of a level 1 solo surviving the lowbie-targeting TSM quests are quite low, and ALFA's history bears that out. Mind you, the ones on BG will also totally murder you, but all of the new ones were tested by soloing them at their target level-- so it's at least possible, with skill/knowledge/patience (but, really; make friends, bring friends. Game's more fun that way).
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kid
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by kid »

shad0wfax wrote:
Duck One wrote:[...] a healthy fraction of that time was reallocating 48 skill points 1 point at a time through ALFA’s required skill customization for each character I created.
This is an opportunity for improvement.
The only time when this is useful... (Unless it's needed for some obscure tech reasons I know nothing about) is when you pick able learner.
While nwn2 lets you pick the feat only after skill selection and thus lose the benefit you gain from the feat, when you get in game and redistribute the skills, the feat is taken into account and allows you to put points in none-class skills at the cost of 1 per point and not 2 per point.
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Zelknolf
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by Zelknolf »

Also used for folk who used the "recommended" button to build their PCs-- as they will get skill points assigned to disabled skills, and is the far-more-common case.
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Duck One
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by Duck One »

Ithildur wrote:It's pretty simple, most alfa vets should know this. Most of the static quests that involve combat are not meant to be soloed by low levels. Even a lowly kobold can get a lucky crit and end the career of a solo lowbie.

Even taking one other person with you will make a huge difference; this is by design.
If this is the case, then it would be helpful to make it plain on those quests, perhaps a dialogue update that says, “this may be rough, so you might want to have a group.” My presumption was that the static quests exist for you to have something to do until others can be found, and to provide an opportunity for a new character to earn some experience to gain a level or two to become more survivable when a real heavy stuff happens with a DM.
shad0wfax wrote:This is the spirit of our Pillars. ALFA has permadeath. ALFA follows D&D. D&D is brutally lethal if you try to solo as well. A 20 can kill any level 1, with the right weapon and damage roll.
My evening commute has permadeath too, but I find if I am careful and prudent, I manage to get home each night. D&D is not designed to be brutal. DM’s design quests to be challenging but fair. And quite a bit of D&D was solo…again the DM’s design the quest for whatever audience they have, and if it happens to be an audience of 1 for a time, that is fine.

As one of the contributing authors of the pillars, I am familiar with them. Be careful not to confuse permanence of death and likelihood of it.
shad0wfax wrote: Some servers are tougher at lower levels than others. BG has a bit more of an easy low-level quest experience than TSM does, but BG can also be far more lethal at mid-levels than TSM can if you're a solo explorer who ventures just a bit off of the beaten path.
Fair enough. But is that posted anywhere?
shad0wfax wrote: ALFA is meant to be played in a party of two at a minimum and 3-5 as the ideal.
Pretty sure that is not in the pillars. And while reaching for the ideal is understandable, dealing with the reality is necessary. Most folks are going to have chaotic schedules and be available at odd hours when being in a group is not going to always happen. If you’re going to have the servers open 24/7, and static content is to fill the void when DM’s and other players are not around, then expect some solo activity.
shad0wfax wrote:Which link specifically is broken?
The one on the “How to connect on our servers” page that recommends installing Skywing’s extentions.
http://www.ign.com/wikis/neverwinter-ni ... ail&id=231 The IGN page is empty …nothing to install.
shad0wfax wrote:Which server?
TSM
shad0wfax wrote:Lethality should not have come as a surprise to an ALFA veteran.
I expected a challenge, but thought my experience and patience would serve me well enough. Going 0 for 3 in newbie encounters despite this made me somewhat pessimistic. If, despite my experience, this was my impression, then imagine the response of a totally new player.
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by HEEGZ »

This constructive feedback is great! I occasionally wonder how far our member expectations and experiences have shifted since NWN2 launched and since the NWN1 days. I have my own opinions and it's always great to hear from others. Keep it coming, and hopefully I'll bump into you in game. 8)
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kid
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by kid »

Good points, I guess, for us all the static are known and familer and perhaps we're... more used to the idea of running the fuck off when things smell iffy...

I had a dude died once at level one to a bloody rat static... yeah... that happened.

Since then I don't think i've lost characters, in new statics or old.
There's a learning curve I guess, but the points about new players are important.

To be fair, Shadow, being BG HDM, and Zelk that made some lovely work there.... Has made that server as low level friendly as possible, give or take a few mishaps.

TSM is rougher, just shoot a tell to someone online and we'll do our best to help.
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by oldgrayrogue »

Duck One:

Check this thread out for some nice tips:

http://www.alandfaraway.info/phpBB3/vie ... =3&t=50309

As far as ALFA's present lethality, it can be very lethal if you are unlucky or choose to perform the more deadly static quests at level 1. On both TSM and BG there are essentially "risk free" quests that can be performed solo to fill time when others are not logged on to play with. The downside of these quests is that they are usually incredibly boring "fed ex" type quests, especially for players who have completed them dozens of times over the years. For a new player though, they offer a very good way to learn the server through exploration.

So a few tips for you and other new players on where you may wish to get started:

TSM: 1) The tavern on the Silverymoon docks (the Bright Blade Brandished) has a number of risk free but still interesting quests. These will help you to explore the City and its environs. 2) The Vault of Sages has a number of messenger quests that will take you farther and farther from the City. Each trip becomes progressively more dangerous so be forewarned. 3) The temples each have their own quest chain, but only for worshipers or those aligned with the deity . . . maybe. 4) Rauvinwatch Keep also has several "currier" quests that will take you all over the server 5) Static and risk free quests can also be found in both interior and exterior areas of High Hold and Rivermoot, and in Fourthpeak. Generally, the further you get from civilization the more risk the quests carry. The roads are mostly safe. Wilderness areas, caves and such can have hostile spawns, as one would expect. On TSM you should also be aware of the Random Encounter system. While on the Overland Map (the travel map) between large areas, there is a chance that a random encounter will fire. These random encounters can be hostile or non-hostile. However, there is always an option of "backing out" of the encounter area (turning back the way you came) to avoid a hostile encounter. In addition to the "risk free" static quests, there are also many quests that require combat and carry a risk of injury or death. In my opinion, these quests clearly call for combat. if you do ANY of the solo at level 1 or even level 2 you should do so knowing you can be killed by a lucky crit or otherwise.

BG: 1) Finding quests on BG is fairly easy: any NPC whose "name" appears in yellow text is usually either a quest giver, merchant or other NPC with non-standard dialogue attached. Talk to as many of these NPCs as you can and you will find many static quests. This is true in BG, Beregost, Nashkel, Ruqel, Candlekeep etc. Generally, quests whose description does not involve the possibility of combat are risk free. Quests that clearly carry the possibility of combat can get you killed, even at higher levels. The Post office offers mail delivery quests that can be performed mostly risk free (except for possible wilderness encounters, usually at night in some areas). These quests will also get you all over the server so you can explore it and get to know it better. In each town or other "settled" area you will fairly easily find a number of static quests that both do and do not carry risk, both in interior and exterior areas. As far as the area static spawns go, generally, the more remote you are from civilization, the more dangerous they can be. On BG, you can also collect "herbs" to earn gold and XP (when they are sold to an herbalist) or "spell components" when sold to a wizard who buys them. Different types of plants and components pay different rates of XP and Gold. The higher your Survival, Heal and Spellcraft Skills, the better chance you have of identifying more exotic herbs that pay better. You can conceivably walk around collecting herbs (which spawn on the roadsides) all day and night without ever facing any risk at all.

Of course, you also earn "RPXP" for basically doing nothing at all. The ticker is clocking XP in increments whenever your PC is 1) In motion or 2) Chatting. If you are "Idle" -- ie AFK -- the ticker stops after a set number of seconds. No taping down keys so you walk in circles or other exploits -- that will get you in trouble =P

So basically, there is a lot to do solo or in pairs and groups without a DM. I agree with you that solo play is often inevitable and to be expected, especially for those who do not have a lot of free time to game. Two new groups are presently forming with promised DM support. On TSM, Heegz will be DMing a dwarf group centered around Felbarr and the Lowroad areas beneath it, for play mostly over the weekend. There is also the group on BG of "unscrupulous" adventurers -- see the BG forums for that.

Hope this helps. Losing 3 PCs in a row can be frustrating. I have been playing ALFA on and off for years and still lose PCs all the time, especially lowbies in streaks. Heero, I think has never played any PC past level 2 =D
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kid
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Re: "New" user experience

Post by kid »

Notes:
TSM travel map is currently dangerous. You can no longer just back away at all times.
You may get a round of mercy, but may not, depends on the spawns.
I nearly got killed twice with a dude a few levels above one.
Travel in groups and buy an invisibility potion as soon as you can afford one. A bit cheesy, but a toon saver.

BG travel is relatively safe, though combat may be forced on you in rural roads if you're not very alert, Z to highlight red hostiles, or Tab to find next target, etc, to make sure you're don't get ambushed.
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