A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

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Analogkid
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Analogkid »

Audark you make some pretty valid points there which is why i do think we need to tread very carefully with the idea. Firstly we need people to be comfortable with it and secondly would need a process in place to address meta/ cheating and all the issues you addressed. If it can't be done, it can't be done.
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Ithildur
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Ithildur »

Every server i've seen Player-DMs, odd things began to happen. Certain characters became crazy powerful, bullish and you had to choose between sucking up or backing away
Yeah, again... I'm not comfortable with the idea either; I remember seeing/hearing of abuses happening on other PWs and proudly declaring to players there 'ALFA doesn't allow you to DM where you play so that kind of nonsense does not happen."

But then I found out in more recent years... apparently not being able to play and DM on the same server in ALFA didn't do a thing to prevent some funky episodes that effectively ended up with similar or identical results, namely people being accused of uber twinking their pals and such. I also did see DMs that also played (in other PWs) maintain a high degree of separation between what they touched while DMing and their involvement while playing a PC, and generally were trustworthy. So it's not always that clear cut... but I'm still skeptical.

One thought is that if such a thing was ever allowed, responsibility would fall heavily on the DMA as well as HDMs, and an even greater degree of responsibility on DMs than we currently hold. It would require whomever the DMA was to be quite vigilant and proactive in preventing abuse and taking clear measures to immediately revoke such privileges from someone who even came to crossing a line.

In a word it would require greater responsibility and diligence from everyone, especially a DMA and HDMs who clearly and firmly assess, discipline, and ideally attempt to correct, train, and reinstate the offending DM. Honestly I'm not sure for those reasons if it would work, if for no other reason that it's additional work and effort, and I've seen the previous DMAs (and HDMs) grow busier and less involved/active at various points during their tenure.

All of the above applies really with or without changes to this rule; if DMs are as important to ALFA as we say they are, then the DMA is possibly the most critical admin position we have (since we are crazy enough to try and operate without a true executive Lead Admin). It's tough, because RL is RL and we all get busy; I've seen some trends that make me question whether we're currently capable of handling discipline/reinstatement of DMs as things are now (separate topic, but I've had some concerns for a while now that things either get glossed over or people get demonized and drop kicked off the map, neither of which are productive in the long run) - will we be able to handle the greater responsibility/potential for problems that this kind of change would require?
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Zelknolf »

Analogkid wrote:Please get off your high horse and don't act like you've never been in or gotten into complicated situations
If you'll recall, I require that any potential for a conflict of interest be absolved before I DM anyone, and explain that I can't benefit from harm coming to a character I'm DMing when this sort of thing comes up (or I just decline to DM people; it depends on whether I think it's fixable). This actually came up for you, as you'd wished Drake to participate in a handful of sessions held on Moonshaes a couple years back, and I'd asked first for us to agree to permanently end hostility between our characters to make sure that I wouldn't be harmed if Drake became successful and wouldn't benefit if he failed. I seem to recall you responding with understanding and agreeing.

I kept the PMs of our conversation, just in case it came up. I could repost if you'd like.
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Wynna
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Wynna »

I would not play where I DM. I do not play where I build.

The first is ALFA policy. Both are personal decisions. I believe in my own integrity. I do not trust my knee-jerk reaction--even in the form of a 'toon--towards survival.

I was the first vote on the ALFA Charter. I was the author of the ALFA Players Manual and the ALFA Herald during the days the Charter and the Rulebook were being written, and in Admin shortly after. I was PA and LA in tumultuous times. I put this information forward to provide historical bona fides. Although ancient history in internet terms, I do not believe my perspective is non-relevant. Conflict of interests was a major part of why the Charter and Rulebook were written as they were. Both issues in this thread are regarding conflicts of interest: 1) DMs playing where they DM and 2) Which Admin has purview over ALFA-wide, domain-based decisions.

The results of the poll indicate that ALFA's voting constituency sees a conflict of interest inherent in DMing where one plays.

The Charter gives purview over DMing to DMA and playing to PA, and LA the tie-breaking vote in Admin disputes. DMA cannot impose this rule change with an opposed PA. That is fact. My opinion is that such a thing should not be possible. This is a decision that affects all of ALFA. Admin are elected to institute the will of their constituency, not to implement personal priorities. Legislating out such unilateral decision-making was why things were written as they were, by people with more specialized legal and constitutional training than I can claim. I believe in the product of their effort.

I believe in the spirit of the founding members of ALFA, expressed in the codification of our intentions for this community. I believe in the rule of majority, and would even did the poll numbers not agree with my personal stance. That they do, however, reinforces one more belief I hold:

ALFA abides.

ALFA abides not in numbers, which dwindle with the fading of this platform, but in shared intentions, across veritable internet epochs and across the globe; across gender, age and national difference. There will be another platform. Whatever each of us finds in this game, this community, it endures. We come back. We remember great RP, and old friends. We argue over the same topics every few years, and change comes--infrequently and slowly--but it does come when the will of the community moves it. This topic has been discussed more than once and probably will be again. I expect to be around when next it comes up, to vote against it, yes, but happy to be able to exercise that community role, willing to bow to an opposing vote, but hoping instead to do my part to continue the spirit of an ancient ALFAn past into the next internet epoch.
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by danielmn »

In case I never said it.....

I love you, Wynna.
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Audark
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Audark »

I too profess my love for you Wynna
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by HEEGZ »

There is no real chance of DMs being allowed to play where they DM in ALFA. Even though I support playing where you DM, I will not vote for it for ALFA at this time, out of respect for those who are opposed. The other three admin oppose the idea (as well as many members), and I had already pursued this topic a couple times last year. Whoever gets elected DMA will not be able to change the current rule, unless there is a sea change in our administration and members.
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Ithildur »

My loathing for teh Wynna knows no bounds.








Oh, I'm sorry, wrong 'L' word. :hic:
Formerly: Aglaril Shaelara, Faerun's unlikeliest Bladesinger
Current main: Ky - something

It’s not the critic who counts...The credit belongs to the man who actually is in the arena, who strives violently, who errs and comes up short again and again...who if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement, but who if he fails, fails while daring greatly.-T. Roosevelt
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Swift
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Swift »

HEEGZ wrote:unless there is a sea change in our administration and members.
One can always hope.
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boombrakh
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by boombrakh »

[Post deleted by author]
Last edited by boombrakh on Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pragmatic (adj.)
The opposite of idealistic is pragmatic, a word that describes a philosophy of "doing what works best."
From Greek pragma "deed," the word has historically described philosophers and politicians who were
concerned more with real-world application of ideas than with abstract notions. A pragmatic person
is sensible, grounded, and practical.
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Ithildur
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Ithildur »

I already cast my vote so it's too late but...

Wynna for DMA.

On a more serious note, Boom, you know I'm supportive of honest, open discussions of issues that get brought up as well as open to changes/new ideas, but I do think it's important to not lightly dismiss points folks have brought up in your zeal to 'do away with the old and make way for new and exciting'. At least that's how you're coming across in this last post; I guess I'm looking for some balance - some of your responses in the last post don't engender confidence in me that you're interested as much in being a good DMA vs you want to break/throw out old stuff and have new stuff because you see your new stuff as much better than the old stuff... without even a platform explaining why the new stuff is better.

i.e. I'm more or less hearing 'It's time for change'... which it may or may not be, but it'd be more reassuring to hear a convincing 'this is why it's time for change' and 'this is the change I have in mind', and ideally 'this is why old school folks will buy into it', rather than 'old school is so dead and lame, get over it'.

Play where you DM in ALFA, make no mistake, is a huge change, probably much bigger than the 2 PC change, with (for lack of a better word) rather profound philosophical implications of shifts in how we see our game today. If people are serious about it, I think you're going to need some really good convincing AND consensus building arguments to sustain a discussion long term.
Formerly: Aglaril Shaelara, Faerun's unlikeliest Bladesinger
Current main: Ky - something

It’s not the critic who counts...The credit belongs to the man who actually is in the arena, who strives violently, who errs and comes up short again and again...who if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement, but who if he fails, fails while daring greatly.-T. Roosevelt
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kid
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by kid »

Boom just wants to break his toys and see what's inside.

Don't matter what you, or anyone else says, he's not going to listen.

But hey, you voted for him.
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boombrakh
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by boombrakh »

[Post deleted by author]
Last edited by boombrakh on Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pragmatic (adj.)
The opposite of idealistic is pragmatic, a word that describes a philosophy of "doing what works best."
From Greek pragma "deed," the word has historically described philosophers and politicians who were
concerned more with real-world application of ideas than with abstract notions. A pragmatic person
is sensible, grounded, and practical.
Zelknolf
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Zelknolf »

If someone who I could cast my vote for had raised their hand and offered to helm this crapfest, then I wouldn't even be in this race.
So, who all could you cast your vote for, and will you resign if we get one of them to volunteer?
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boombrakh
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by boombrakh »

[Post deleted by author]
Last edited by boombrakh on Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pragmatic (adj.)
The opposite of idealistic is pragmatic, a word that describes a philosophy of "doing what works best."
From Greek pragma "deed," the word has historically described philosophers and politicians who were
concerned more with real-world application of ideas than with abstract notions. A pragmatic person
is sensible, grounded, and practical.
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