A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

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Zelknolf
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A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Zelknolf »

We seem to get a few outlandish promises every election, and folk do seem to get terribly excited about it, but it's probably worth reminding people that our hot topic of debate this time isn't something that can change based on one election. Our governance is set up in a way that makes it fairly easy to prevent community roles, or the definitions of those roles, from changing. I'd like to think this is on purpose-- you usually want governance that moves slowly and requires multiple elections favoring a dramatic change before it happens; wild swings in policy that return to their starting point tend to be a net loss.

So, to the state we're actually voting on, and the topic in the DMA threads-- DMA election alone can't change our policy about whether DMs may play where they DM. It is a necessary piece, because the DMA approves and disciplines DMs (that is, a DMA opposed to "DM where you play" can simply dismiss or not approve any DM who does/would play where they DM); the question of who may play, where they may play, and under what conditions is unambiguously and written into the charter the authority of the PA.

The contents of server teams is also writ into the charter as the authority of HDMs (so there's a hollow promise about HDMs being told who they'll put on their team; the DMA's authority is in the other direction [they are responsible for approving DMs, and so can prevent an addition to a DM team, and they are responsible for DM discipline, so they can remove a person from a DM team, but the question of whether a given DM is on a given server's staff is unambiguously the authority of the HDM-- they can just say "no," and that's that], and a DMA who tries to do this anywaygets a recall vote immediately and automatically). I'd note that the DMA can replace them, so this isn't bulletproof, but replacement HDMs are very hard to find, as you need someone who can actually tangibly keep a server up.


The sum of these situations is all chaos punctuated by broad failing public gestures, of course, and I would ask the community generally to not expect immediate and dramatic change over this election. It is likely to be a needed piece for dramatic change, but not every piece for dramatic change-- a return to earlier comment, I suppose: change is slow, probably on purpose.
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Ithildur »

I'm no expert on the charter and our governing rules, but what Zelk is pointing out makes sense. Can others who're more familiar with the charter comment in as well (if it's something that clear cut surely more than one or two persons should affirm such is the case).

If so, rather than sweeping/broad promises about this particular issue, would it be reasonable and within the prevue of the DMA/candidates to, say, propose that they would discuss with specific HDMs the possibility of say allowing one or two specific exceptions to the 'no DMing where you play' rule on an experimental basis? Obviously something that would be monitored pretty closely, and evaluated honestly (by more than one person) after the trial time limit has been reached, etc.

While I'm still skeptical that such changes are a good idea, this is an issue that keeps coming up and I'm starting to be on the fence about just a tad, mainly because it's a constant challenge for us to keep DMs in the game - if it's high enough of a priority and enough of a difference maker in whether our game works (well) or not, perhaps it's something that does need to be considered at least on a limited basis.
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Mick
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Mick »

I fail to see why this would even be necessary. We have four servers. Two of these are robust with content (including static content) and are interesting regions. If people want to DM, there is nothing keeping them from doing so on one of the servers upon which they do not normally play.
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by danielmn »

THe same reason it is necessary, even after the allowance of two pc's per person, for people to squabble over cool down times for transit between servers so they can event hop.
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Adanu »

It's the instant gratification complex, and supreme idealistic trust in players.
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Swift »

Mick wrote:I fail to see why this would even be necessary. We have four servers. Two of these are robust with content (including static content) and are interesting regions. If people want to DM, there is nothing keeping them from doing so on one of the servers upon which they do not normally play.
Why was 2 PCs necessary?

It wasn't, but it sure did make things more fun for some part of the community. This would be no different.
Adanu wrote:It's the instant gratification complex, and supreme idealistic trust in players.
And 2 PCs, lowered cooldown times on server hops isn't about instant gratification? "Ohh, something going on over there? Let me just run across the server and portal/log on to my second PC."

To the actual topic at hand, the final decision may come down to the PA, but if the DMA is in favour of the idea and is supported to some degree (via being elected), that is at least a step forward.
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Adanu »

Swift wrote:
Mick wrote:I fail to see why this would even be necessary. We have four servers. Two of these are robust with content (including static content) and are interesting regions. If people want to DM, there is nothing keeping them from doing so on one of the servers upon which they do not normally play.
Why was 2 PCs necessary?

It wasn't, but it sure did make things more fun for some part of the community. This would be no different.
Adanu wrote:It's the instant gratification complex, and supreme idealistic trust in players.
And 2 PCs, lowered cooldown times on server hops isn't about instant gratification? "Ohh, something going on over there? Let me just run across the server and portal/log on to my second PC."

To the actual topic at hand, the final decision may come down to the PA, but if the DMA is in favour of the idea and is supported to some degree (via being elected), that is at least a step forward.
Two PCs is an option that people could opt out of. This is not.
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Zelknolf
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Zelknolf »

Swift wrote:To the actual topic at hand, the final decision may come down to the PA, but if the DMA is in favour of the idea and is supported to some degree (via being elected), that is at least a step forward.
That's not quite what I'm saying. I'm saying that an HDM, the DMA, or the PA can, with the well-established powers of their domains, prevent DMs from playing on the server where they play (we don't consider removing DMs from teams to be 'censure,' so HDMs can remove a DM from their team and the DMA can straight-up dismiss a DM for whatever, and the PA has the direct authority to make it against the rules for a player to do a thing as a player). Therefore, they must all agree to allow DMs to play on servers where they DM for it to happen.

I would also be very cautious about reading elections as polls on opinions about specific policies. A vote for a candidate could just as easily be an oppressive lack of faith in the others: some demonstrated failure in previous positions of power or some meaningful fear that things will rapidly deteriorate based on known interactions with the community or other admin-- the overwhelming response I've heard to this election is that there's no good choice.
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by kid »

I'll DM where I play and approve myself to cvc all of you.
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Heero »

There wouldve been a good option had my name not been omitted from the election choices. This is an outrage.
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Ithildur »

A vote for a candidate could just as easily be an oppressive lack of faith in the others: some demonstrated failure in previous positions of power or some meaningful fear that things will rapidly deteriorate based on known interactions with the community or other admin-- the overwhelming response I've heard to this election is that there's no good choice.
Overwhelming response... I wasn't blown away by the platforms/posts of any of the candidates (then again, I wasn't when the previous DMA ran either), but unless there's been regular discussions amongst dozens of ALFAns that are all expressing the above opinion I don't think a statement like this is very constructive. At least there are 3 people who are willing to step up and take on the basic responsibilities. Now that it's been helpfully pointed out that DMA candidates probably shouldn't be making certain promises that are largely outside their sphere, why don't we just let things play out, let people vote, and see what happens? Maybe some of us will be pleasantly surprised.
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Zelknolf
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Zelknolf »

Ithildur wrote:unless there's been regular discussions amongst dozens of ALFAns that are all expressing the above opinion I don't think a statement like this is very constructive.
We would surely need "dozens" of votes cast for "dozens" of opinions to hold such. When there's only about forty people logging in, one social circle is a significant portion of the population and speaks to the circumstance the candidates enter. This doesn't doom everything, of course, and I maintain that promises of sweeping change will likely be deflated in short order, and severe responses to the effect of quitting over election outcomes are probably not proportional to actual in-game change we'll see. Though saying that anyone who wins this election will need to build trust and/or confidence in the cluster of people who tangibly keep our game running is hardly meritless.
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by Ithildur »

Maybe better to simply say 'thank you for pointing out what you did in the initial post Zelk and for all you do as Tech Admin, and move on, let people vote/decide for themselves'?

Seriously.
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It’s not the critic who counts...The credit belongs to the man who actually is in the arena, who strives violently, who errs and comes up short again and again...who if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement, but who if he fails, fails while daring greatly.-T. Roosevelt
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by kid »

If that's for my benefit, I said nothing about quitting over outcome. I don't care who wins.
Just said i'll will quit if we play where we DM.
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Re: A Brief Reminder on the Contents of the Charter

Post by FoamBats4All »

kid wrote:If that's for my benefit, I said nothing about quitting over outcome. I don't care who wins.
Just said i'll will quit if we play where we DM.
Yeah, no shit. You wouldn't be the only one.
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