A Land Far Away

Just curious: So a-holes no need to read into this, but, was the decision to move Stoneskin (Druid) to be a level 5 spell have anything to do with the time compression change/test?

Might this be also reviewable after the 60 days and might it go back to 4th level spell perhaps someday?

Galadorn wrote:Just curious: So a-holes no need to read into this, but, was the decision to move Stoneskin (Druid) to be a level 5 spell have anything to do with the time compression change/test?

Might this be also reviewable after the 60 days and might it go back to 4th level spell perhaps someday?

No.

This: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/stoneskin.htm

I think I used SS once; maybe twice. The amount I'll miss it will be directly proportionate to missing not having a fusking liability of an animal companion. SS was too strong but it helped make up for shit companion AI/controllability.

What Castano said. Druids weren't supposed to have Stoneskin that early, we adjusted it -- as we have many other spells -- to fit their PnP intentions.

Not sure why Obsidian decided to homebrew it.

stoneskin is supposed to be a lvl 5 Druid spell no?

Castano wrote:stoneskin is supposed to be a lvl 5 Druid spell no?

Yes. Now it is.

Animal companions aren't meant to blow goats with reckless abandon, no?

I-KP wrote:Animal companions aren't meant to blow goats with reckless abandon, no?

No. But they still do.

I-KP wrote:

I-KP wrote:Animal companions aren't meant to blow goats with reckless abandon, no?

No. But they still do.

Which... has what to do with Stoneskin?

Should we adjust all spells to be a lower level, to help animal companions survive? No.

Should we make Wizards get Stoneskin as a 3rd level spell, for the same reason? Or hell, they're even less useful. Let's make it a 2nd level spell for wizards.

If you or someone else wants to improve the AI of animal companions, or bring them closer to their PnP counterparts, please, get in contact with the tech team. We'd be happy to answer any questions as you work.

Cool, thanks for the responses. I play a lot IKP, and Stoneskin is quite possibly the top most survival helping spell invented in this game, especially for ACs and party members even more than my own PC. Just wondering if it might come back to level 4 is all, it's all good. I'm glad it's where it is supposed to be now. I did always wonder why Wizards and Sorcerers got it earlier though, just IMO it seems much more a "natural-divine" style spell than arcane... i mean, it does turn your skin into stone. cheers

FoamBats4All wrote:

I-KP wrote:

I-KP wrote:Animal companions aren't meant to blow goats with reckless abandon, no?

No. But they still do.

Which... has what to do with Stoneskin?

Should we adjust all spells to be a lower level, to help animal companions survive? No.

Should we make Wizards get Stoneskin as a 3rd level spell, for the same reason? Or hell, they're even less useful. Let's make it a 2nd level spell for wizards.

If you or someone else wants to improve the AI of animal companions, or bring them closer to their PnP counterparts, please, get in contact with the tech team. We'd be happy to answer any questions as you work.

Directly to do with SS? Not much beyond it was a mechanic that helped AC's to not be completely shite. Yes, it was OP. Yes, it could be used in exploitative ways. Yes, it needed to change. Yes, ACs are going to be even more crappy than they were before. Lovely.

I-KP wrote:

FoamBats4All wrote:

I-KP wrote:

I-KP wrote:Animal companions aren't meant to blow goats with reckless abandon, no?

No. But they still do.

Which... has what to do with Stoneskin?

Should we adjust all spells to be a lower level, to help animal companions survive? No.

Should we make Wizards get Stoneskin as a 3rd level spell, for the same reason? Or hell, they're even less useful. Let's make it a 2nd level spell for wizards.

If you or someone else wants to improve the AI of animal companions, or bring them closer to their PnP counterparts, please, get in contact with the tech team. We'd be happy to answer any questions as you work.

Directly to do with SS? Not much beyond it was a mechanic that helped AC's to not be completely shite. Yes, it was OP. Yes, it could be used in exploitative ways. Yes, it needed to change. Yes, ACs are going to be even more crappy than they were before. Lovely.

Then please, help us improve them in the limitations of our ruleset.

But by your reasoning, we should also make stoneskin come earlier for wizards. It's just not a good idea.

I look it at like this: The last 32 months playing my Druid I was blessed with a little bonus of being able to use SS at level 4. It sure helped me get through level 7 and 8 with a little less stress, and probably saved dozens of other PCs' lives during those 4-6 months at those levels. Thanks ALFA!

Next plan: Lets do away with those pesky tree-huggers using metal weapons! FOR SHAME!

FoamBats4All wrote:

I-KP wrote:

FoamBats4All wrote:

I-KP wrote:

I-KP wrote:Animal companions aren't meant to blow goats with reckless abandon, no?

No. But they still do.

Which... has what to do with Stoneskin?

Should we adjust all spells to be a lower level, to help animal companions survive? No.

Should we make Wizards get Stoneskin as a 3rd level spell, for the same reason? Or hell, they're even less useful. Let's make it a 2nd level spell for wizards.

If you or someone else wants to improve the AI of animal companions, or bring them closer to their PnP counterparts, please, get in contact with the tech team. We'd be happy to answer any questions as you work.

Directly to do with SS? Not much beyond it was a mechanic that helped AC's to not be completely shite. Yes, it was OP. Yes, it could be used in exploitative ways. Yes, it needed to change. Yes, ACs are going to be even more crappy than they were before. Lovely.

Then please, help us improve them in the limitations of our ruleset.

But by your reasoning, we should also make stoneskin come earlier for wizards. It's just not a good idea.

If you have an ass-backwards take on my reasoning, then yes: SSs for everybody!

Erm. No.

My concern here is that the noble ideal of making ALFA match PnP wherever possible results in yanking stuff out without proper consideration being given to how it might have been used in non-power-gamey ways to make up for NWN2 deficiencies in other areas. As I said, I used SS in this capacity all of perhaps twice, and it was too strong, so it's not the greatest injustice in the ALFA gaming world, but ACs just got a bit more shitty directly because of it.

Familiars are just as terrible, if not worse, for the same reasons. They're not team players and routinely attempt to attack suidically-- which is what I think Foam meant. Familiars suck, and they could be made less sucky (by the presented logic) by increasing the availability of buffs which can target creatures other than the caster.

The problem is that the collateral damage of leaving spells at too-low level (which I believe is the case here; we don't need to defend this as some mighty fealty to pen and paper. Stoneskin is more powerful than most 5th level spells, and blows 4th level spells out of the water. It probably needs to be 6th level, to have an expensive material component, or be min/lvl) is precisely the full consideration of the impact. Stoneskin can be cast on yourself, your fighter pal, your cleric pal, or a random non-hostile NPC. It makes good scrolls. At level 4, it makes good wands. Animal companions are a niche case-- the small loss on the fringes of other more-significant gains.