A Land Far Away

We probably won't approach this for a while with NWN2, but since we are on the topic of PC's with extra-ordinary backgrounds, I wanted to point out that many HDM's didn't have so much of an issue with these types of PC's as they did with legendary PC's, that is PC's that were level 12 or 15, or 20 who had baggage issues from old plots or other servers or with other legendary PC's

We know there were some very hard cases that involved many HDM's, DM's, and cost some DMships and a lot of mudslinging through the dispute boards.

I have had the worst time as an HDM dealing with the fallout of trying to resolve some complex issues with several legendary PC's.

When NWN2 has 3 or 4 servers in a year or two, we will have a few PC's that are above level 10 that may or may not have fairly complex plots or events surrounding them.

This is more difficult to deal with than extra-ordinary PC backgrounds because often it involves research into what events transpired with this PC, sometimes with DM's long gone and DM decisions that may have not been the best solution.

I'm not discouraging legendary PC's, we had quite a few on Daggerford that fit in superbly, and we had others where once it was known they were on DF my PM box got full of messages good and bad about the PC and what to do and so on and so forth.

I would like to go on record that I discourage so-called 'legendary' PCs.

I say we institute a level cap of 12, allow PCs to gain XP, and force retire them at level 13.

Could ask for a bio and, y'know, pimpslap the player if they bullshit ya? I'd hope the players knew what happened; they were there, after all.

Oooh! A new term. "Legendary PC." I like the sound of that.

JaydeMoon wrote:I would like to go on record that I discourage so-called 'legendary' PCs.

I say we institute a level cap of 12, allow PCs to gain XP, and force retire them at level 13.

+1 Solves a lot of problems, encourages rerolling, and allows for a world filled with NPC's that were created by players.

JaydeMoon wrote:I would like to go on record that I discourage so-called 'legendary' PCs.

I say we institute a level cap of 12, allow PCs to gain XP, and force retire them at level 13.

I recognize the allure of such a system from a DM standpoint, it creates less work to just retire high level characters. However, in my opinion the ability to potentially have your little level 1 character grow up into a legendary leader of the people/church/order/famous/whatever is a major strong point for ALFA. If eventually a group like a local church or druidic circle could be put into a PC's hands, that is a major step forward in terms of roleplay and opens up whole new avenues of interactions between characters.

I would say that around level 10-12ish the player should create a complex bio to be posted in a DM only forum that includes virtually everything about their character. No bio, or a bio that is not up to snuff, and the character forever sits at that level, unable to gain more xp.

Edit: The bio also could serve to be a place for a DM to post recent storylines involving the character so that any DM could easily look it up and see what that character is involved with.

Mulu wrote:

JaydeMoon wrote:I would like to go on record that I discourage so-called 'legendary' PCs.

I say we institute a level cap of 12, allow PCs to gain XP, and force retire them at level 13.

+1 Solves a lot of problems, encourages rerolling, and allows for a world filled with NPC's that were created by players.

I don't know the mechanics of it all, but I don't like limits on characters. It's too....umm...limiting.

For all the trouble they can be, longlived PCs can add a tremendous amount of depth to the game- they tend to span longer stretches of ALFA history than most DMs, and can easily become questgivers in their own right, so long as their players don't feel the need to command the spotlight at every turn. For the massive investment of time and effort in building a longlived and developed character, any kind of automatic retirement system makes for a fairly insulting ending- moreso if the PC automatically became "DM property" for use ingame as an NPC- very few DMs are going to be able to do justice to the nuances of personality and motivation that accumulate over real-life years of playing, and seeing a DM play a treasured, force-retired PC/NPC inappropriately is going to be more than an insult to the player who spent years developing that one character.

If a player wants to retire (and if they want to offer their PC as an NPC for DM use), I don't see any problem with that. But mandating/forcing retirement at an arbitrary XP total seems absurd to me. Capping advancement at a certain level, even starting XP flow in reverse to represent being "past their prime" would be preferable to pulling a character with years of history out of circulation in an OOC fashion, for OOC reasons of "well, they got too many XP". For a community serious about continuity and IC roleplay, this seems pretty unthinkable.

I'd certainly support less random canon-shaking insanity in DM-plots that end up becoming a permanent fixture in ALFA-canon due to longlived PCs continuing to "tell the tale"- better documentation of significant events, so future DMs aren't blindsided by it, and working with DMs to offer paths towards satisfying resolution/retirement for "Legendary PCs". But essentially deleting PCs that have been the product of countless hours of heartfelt roleplay simply because "PCs of __ XP or more are too hard to DM" is ridiculous in my opinion.

I'd further like to go on record that I support retroactively applying this set of standards to NWN1 servers.

All PCs over level 12 are to be force retired, those players should go ahead and roll up new PCs at this time.

A big, giant, super-humongous +1 to what Acadius so artfully and eloquently said.

Holy crap, people! You're taking Jayde seriously?


Jonathan Swift said the world would be a better place if we all ate Irish babies; what was he getting at (aside from how tastey they would be)?

Is Millia a lengendary NPC then?

As someone who has never gotten a PC over lvl8...I whole-heartedly support Jayde's proposal

The funny thing is i have the oldest PC, and wouldn't qualify for being pruned under Jayde's plan. I'm not sure whether that makes me happy or sad.

Alot of the 'issues' with the current and recent past 'legendary' PCs has only come about because a) they have been around for 2+ years and back when they started nobody documented anything and b) so much shit has changed from when they started to now and the adjustment may not have been smooth.

Ask the DMs that did my PrC and they will tell you that Voran, while being a great DM that spent alot of time developing the real core of my character, barely left any notes regarding my characters history on NC or what she had achieved/broken/killed etc.

If everything gets documented, you won't really have any major issues. If history repeats and everyone goes crazy and nothing gets documented, you will have the same issues.

Pretty simple.