Why do so many people want ALFA to fail?

[Rick7475]

I'm not talking about suggestions for reform or changes, etc, but the snide comments about how supposed ALFA is doing poorly or it is dying or etc etc.

The doomsayers. Why are there so many on these boards?

[JaydeMoon]

ALFA is going through tough times right now. Membership is down, interest in legacy servers is waning to the point we have only a few die-hards left. New servers are way behind schedule. Builders have gotten burned out.

Ideas meant to keep things moving have backfired.

People who loved ALFA as the greatest gaming community they have ever known are in despair that it will return to what it was for them before.

They're sad and angry. Some of them feel powerless. Many of them do not comprehend why certain decisions are being made, sometimes because they merely want their way and other times because certain decisions truly are stupid.

They have a lot of fuel for that. Watching Aelred fume about the whole building thing and finally leaving was rather disheartening. We have no real way to see the status of all of the NWN2 servers. Silver Marches is closer than most, but will it be ready in a couple months, or half a year, or next year? Last 'ready for Live' date I remember seeing estimated was January. That's a month past.

New members are signing on, but they want to play NWN2 servers now. They come, they see we don't have our sh!t together yet and they move on. These are people we want in our community and we can't be certain they will come back.

It's like the Great Depression for ALFA. And when everyone is in low spirits, you find something to blame. You shake your fist and you rail against whatever it is you find fault with.

And it's all fine and good to tell everyone they should be optimistic or they should this or they should that or have patience and if you build it they will come, etc. But the fact of the matter is they've been waiting, watching, and fail to see how we are even somewhat nearing getting close to ready to be what we might have kind of been something like back in the heyday.

So they want to be heard. And their voices feel like they are falling on deaf ears, half the time. A large portion of ALFA wants planetouched. They have said so eloquently, they have said so somewhat caustically, they have made great arguments for and feel that the arguments against are weak. The decision closes a lot of doors that have the potential to aid ALFA when those servers get on line.

I'm not speaking to whether of not they are right or whatever, just that it's been a hugely polarizing issue and they feel like they are banging their heads against a brick wall. And it's this way with more than just that issue.

And so they are angry and sad and disappointed. They don't want ALFA to fail. They want ALFA to be what it was before. And they don't think it's being steered in that direction.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are asking why those in charge want ALFA to fail, because in their minds, it certainly doesn't seem like it's being run with success in mind.

[ç i p h é r]

Nobody "in charge" wants ALFA to fail. These are - by and large - the folks volunteering their time to helping the project. I think the "doomsaying" that periodically flares up in the forums can be characterized simply as differences in vision. Not everyone agrees on how ALFA should be shaped, so one step forward for one group of ALFAns seems like one step backward for another.

[indio]

To quote a Rob Reiner film, hate fades.

I like your quote btw Jayde. But who the hell is Kylie?

[AcadiusLost]

I'd agree that there is a generalized frustration and/or disappointment with the state of the NWN2 transition, which is fueling a fair bit of negative sentiments, blame passing, and perhaps even "doomsaying". There was (and is) a strong will among those who set down the guidelines and principles for NWN2, to "get it right from the start"- to use the years of NWN1 experience to try to make a better in-game balance and feel, making full use of the "clean slate" we're offered by the transition.

Many of the goal and standards were set when we had many teams excited and eager to build their chosen areas- and when it was presumed that the playerbase would be equally eager to get in-game and play and test as soon as possible. One doesn't /need/ a Live server to have enjoyable RP, exciring adventures- indeed, the wild and wooly days of NWN1-Beta were often touted as more "fun" than ALFA's Live stretch by some.

Since then we've had fewer and fewer builders, and only a handful who have tried out the Beta servers- well short of the critical mass to make Beta play an enjoyable adhoc "jump in and adventure" pastime. The players, by and large, want to wait for Live, while the builders want and need feedback to make the adjustments before Live.

It's possible that the worldbuilders need to have some discussions about what the minimum needs for Live are, to move things along at a different pace. It may well be that going Live with less polish and working things out as we go would be healthier for the community on the whole, than refining by inches, while the majority assumed things have long since stagnated. I and a number of others, am actively engaged in work towards NWN2-ALFA Live pretty much every day, every week, every month- and it's that disconnect between the quiet contributors, and the outspoken "doomsayers", that remains the prime frustration. The more resiliant of us toil on, the more passionate burn out and sometimes return- but a bit of faith in the community, and a little less sniping from the wings, would go a long way towards keeping a positive outlook.

[JaydeMoon]

Nobody "in charge" wants ALFA to fail. These are - by and large - the folks volunteering their time to helping the project. I think the "doomsaying" that periodically flares up in the forums can be characterized simply as differences in vision. Not everyone agrees on how ALFA should be shaped, so one step forward for one group of ALFAns seems like one step backward for another.

You can say that nobody "in charge" wants ALFA to fail and I would certainly agree with that. But people who are watching the community not flourish might understandably place the blame with its leadership.

Then it may seem that those in charge want ALFA to fail in the same manner that Rick is speaking of when he says the doomsayers want ALFA to fail.

NOBODY truly WANTS ALFA to fail, it's more a sense of not contributing positively enough to help it succeed.

Personally I think a lot of people are putting in a lot of effort on a lot of levels and I applaud all of it, I certainly don't think there isn't enough going on, however AL brings up something that I think could be addressed:

it's that disconnect between the quiet contributors, and the outspoken "doomsayers"

Remove that disconnect as much as is possible. Eliminate 'quiet contribution' by publishing the goings on on a regular basis.

Have someone gather the stuff that's happened over the last week and put it out:

List issues in contention
List issues resolved
List servers being built, % towards next stage of development
List what is needed to be built, what is already built, what is left to build
List number of Beta Testers logged in
List scripts written and included

Etc etc etc.

This gives you a level of STFU towards people who feel nothing is being accomplished. It makes transparent what is needed, people can see where contributions are going, wonder at the actual lack of beta testers, give them the ability to put up, shut up, or get out of the way.

Just an idea.

/me shrugs


Those who know who kyle is, know. Those who don't, wonder!

[Rusty]

What, you mean... like this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or this?

Or any of the other forum threads or wiki pages containing information on NWN2 progress.

Please don't confuse the sniping from the sidelines with any kind of informed critique.

[ç i p h é r]

FWIW, I agree with you Jayde; Transparency is extremely helpful. I have not been as diligent as I could be in posting news about our progress, mostly b/c it rarely, if ever, receives any comment, so it feels like time that wasn't well spent. Given the amount of work we need to do, I'm sure you can imagine why it's so easy to forgo the formality of progress reports and announcements.

Having said that, I have been trying to update all our documentation online and doing what I can to give those interested (and those actively involved) a glimpse into what we're doing. You can see some of that on our projects page:

http://alandfaraway.org/projects.php

I'm in the process of cleaning up much of the descriptions so they render properly in a browser. But still, you can get an idea of what's going on there. Ideally, we could show some of these at random on a side bar on our website, but hey...put that on our list.

[JaydeMoon]

No, I don't mean that, actually. Nice try, though.

I mean a single, centralized, stickied post that announces, weekly or daily or monthly, what has been accomplished that doesn't require bouncing around all over the place to threads individual members may or may not have access to, wiki pages that individual members may or may not have access to, areas that your average member might not even realize are there, etc.

You don't achieve transparency by forcing those who are looking to have to jump through hoops to find the info they need.

You list over 15 DIFFERENT links there. I very much doubt that's an exhaustive supply of NWN 2 info that lists where we are and what we're doing.

Also, your average member can look at that projects page, but it might have been sitting stagnant at those numbers for the past 6 months, for all someone who isn't religiously checking them each day knows.

I'm not saying this is THE fix for the issue and I'm not saying that if we don't do it then we're doing a horrible injustice to the community.

It's just a simple idea: Centralize progress information, place it in the easiest place to find in the whole website (I would guess an announcement in the general forum), and allow everyone to see, at a glance, what's been going on.

That's all. Maybe you see it as a waste of time. Maybe it is. Or perhaps there's value in it.

[JaydeMoon]

That last was in response to Rusty's 'List of Wonder'.

Cipher, certainly keeping tabs and publishing everything as it happens could take time from actually getting stuff done.

And it may not be time well spent, especially if it takes away valuable time getting the new content up and going. And finding a volunteer to aggregate everything on a regular basis as a sole responsibility isn't necessarily easy.

It's just a thought for a tool to kind of nipping some of the negative statements in the bud and as a tool to counter some of the things they spout off at the mouth about.

It's hard to say we're not getting anywhere when you can simply go to the centralized log of accomplishment and go, "You, sir, are an idiot."

The only real value add is in terms of newer members who may get swept up by the squeaky wheels and their vocalizing. If they hear all the bitching and don't see anything that negates that bitching (without having to dig, because we're all lazy and won't) then their perception will be greatly colored by that.

But if they hear bitching and the community response is, "You're incorrect and here is the one stop shop where we prove it," then we start neutralizing the power of those doomsayers to influence others.

I'm not entirely sure how important that is and how much effort we would want to put into that.

[Rusty]

So you are volunteering to collate and publish this information on a weekly basis?

[ç i p h é r]

Maybe it'll be helpful. Maybe it won't. Understand though that it's not for a lack of desire that you don't see more news. Perhaps a month - maybe two - ago Wynna asked that we (Admin) work to get one news announcement on our website every month. Each of us would take a turn doing it to minimize the burden on us collectively. Unfortunately, we haven't gotten it done, but the point I'm trying to illustrate here is that there is a DESIRE to do what you are asking and RECOGNITION of its potential benefits by many of us behind (or in front of?) the scenes.

Realize as well that this is a two way street. To get more news announcements and progress reports, we need more feedback from people like you, members of our community who we are ultimately doing all of this work for. We are not robots. We don't get paid. Our investment in ALFA is very much an emotional one, so feedback and encouragement are truly the driving force behind all of our efforts.

[ç i p h é r]

And by the way, thanks for the feedback.

[JaydeMoon]

So you are volunteering to collate and publish this information on a weekly basis?

And finding a volunteer to aggregate everything on a regular basis as a sole responsibility isn't necessarily easy.

It's just an idea, man, one to which even I admit may not be worth the effort. It's not me complaining about lack of transparency. It's about offering a simple suggestion to help minimize the impact of some of the people who ARE sniping. If you don't want to do it, don't do it, I'm not attached to it.

But minimizing input from members of the community by giving partial examples of how it's already done in a snide (or at the least, tactless) manner or statements like, "Sure we can do that, if you are willing to do it" isn't very helpful.

When a visible leader of the community does that sort of thing, it can lead to members not contributing their ideas for fear that they'll be embarrassed when a 'leader' of the community basically goes, "We already do that, you mook" or don't contribute their ideas because the impression is we'll only listen if you're willing to personally follow through on that idea.

And, Cipher, I understand those things, there's a whole lot going on and some things just fall to the wayside. Ultimately what would we prefer, status reports on where we are or people diligently making where we are = 'ready to go'? I would definitely prefer the latter.

Keep in mind that it's not me you have to convince, about desire and recognition. I have a lot of faith that it's coming together and that when it does it's gonna be fkin' awesome.

And actually you don't have to convince anyone. It just may be a good idea to try, a statement that I think we're in agreement on here. As to the feasibility of it?

/me shrugs

[Avaz]

Even though I'm still very new here, after having read through numerous posts and update threads, I know just how massive the scope of this project is, and the passion and determination required to see it through to fruition. It is that passtion and ambition that I look forward to the day when the servers go Live.

I'd like to thank all the builders/scripters/various other positions that are involved, for the hard work that's being put into ALFA. Indeed, had I the time, I'd offer to do something, too. Alas that is one area where I am lacking, unfortunately. But a great big thank you and "you can do it!" to all involved.

/end cheerleading