A Land Far Away

Hello ALFA -

I have to admit I am experiencing some serious building burn-out due to lack of faith in our general community. Though we do have a small handful of dedicated people contributing to the NWN2 project this is not proportionate to the size of our community. I am guessing on the numbers here, but currently with 100+ people very active in the forums and maybe 30-40 active NWN1 players, how fair is it that the task of building the servers is laid on such a small handful as we have now? (And on top of that, there have been some members with the nerve to post comments expressing their impatience at how long it is taking to get built - yet they don't bother to help. )

The concern arises mainly due to Waterdeep. As Cipher will attest, I signed on to WD just to help out but I never planned on being its main builder, I really want to go back to Cormanthor and build/organize that server (which is why iI signed on in the first place). I felt that the server needed a primary starting point finished before the details could be filled in - Cipher had already done a good part of the southgate area but I offered to finish it and promised to do alot of the grunt work - like making it exact to the map so that other surrounding areas will mesh correctly and walkmesh cutting around the 300 houses and the walls! Tedious and time consuming. I have say it takes alot of hours and there seems to be no shortcut. Once the initial exterior is done I truly want to go back to MD/Cormanthor and focus only on that project - but I feel incredibly guilty that I am leaving Cipher up in the air without a main builder. Rick is still active on the sewers and a few others like darren and HEEGZ pop in to post now and then. But how will the other exteriors get built if they take so much time and energy? Who will want to do the boring monotonous placement of another 300 houses? Who will tackle the 20 different interiors per single exterior area - many of which have multiple floors? There are quests, conversations, and NPC creation both on interiors and exteriors. It is too much work for such a small group. WD has the potential of being an amazing place for players and DMs alike but what will our community do if it never gets built due to lack of help??? Who is going to step up and contribute?

It also crosses my mind that if Indio and Thangorn pulled out for some reason (such as real life) ALFA might run the risk of never even seeing any NWN2 servers. Sure people will keep playing NWN1 until the interest finally dies out, but isn't our whole future as a community resting with NWN2?

Our community effort to build NWN2 and keep ALFA alive will only be truly successful if more of our members start to contribute. We have so many 'experienced veterans' in all aspects of the game that could offer their expertise to the project but choose to sit and wait for the small handful to do the work of creating the NWN2 servers.

I love this place even for all its craziness and conflict and I can already predict some of the reactions to this post:

"I dont have NWN2 or a computer that will run it" You could still help any of the servers with quest ideas and write up conversations. This would be a huge help for any server.

"I have the game but don't know how to use the toolset." Interiors are easy to build with the toolset and do not take alot of knowhow - yet they do take time to build because every little thing in a room must be placed and positioned.

"I have no time left due to real life." This would apply to many people and is a clear and understandable reality - but many of the people who say this still spend a good amount of time posting on the forums. If you have no time to build or play why not use your 'gift of gab' to brainstorm ideas for a server. Things that could be implemented/created. As hardcore RPers who know how to use imagination well, I know that any one of us in this community has the creativity to come up with great new ideas for the projects. Many people spend a significant amount of time posting every day anyway, why not use that post to help out the team effort.

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IDEAS for POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:

I feel we need some good solutions - ways to get more people envolved in a group community effort.


Perhaps since so many people have the time and interest to post (Library, Discussion, Off topic and now even Play by post!), posting might be a way that we could get more people actively contributing to the NWN2 project.

For example: I am creating a wizard training school with actual class instruction dialoged - I need ideas for the names and subjects of the classes as well as the teachers conversations/dialogs and quest ideas related to taking the classes - I post the request in my server thread and ask the community for help thru their creative posts. Ideas will come and generate more movement and more ideas which will help to bring things to life.

Interiors are a huge need and can often be done by most anyone with basic toolset skills. It is just creative interior decorating really. In fact the servers builders could even put the room tiles together ahead of time and export the .erf for the prospective new interior designers. All they would have to do is open a mod in the toolset import the erf (which would have the room tiles already laid down) and then start putting down all the placeables. Just imagine if each of our members built just one single interior - be it house or inn or temple or cave - it would move the live dates of the servers up by months and possibly years!

New players invitation I have seen many new players coming into the community recently but none are signing on to the build teams and ALL are waiting to play NWN2. Is this because they don't know it is possible or needed? Personally I have contacted a couple of them extending open invitations. But maybe someone could be in charge of this on a regular basis. Threads on the new player forum and home page announcing an open invitation for builders/scripters, creatives, etc. geared toward new players.

Rewards system Admin could create some sort of reward system for any players contributing to the NWN2 project to spur more interest. Truth be told, alot of people will just not help unless they feel they are getting something out of it for themselves. It is a shame but this is a reality in our imperfect world. How about Free xp for your first PC? It's something that would entice many people to contributing.



Please post your constructive thoughts to the ideas I've presented and add your own - but more importantly please try to contribute even a little of your time to the community project. Believe me when I say you will feel great pride in knowing you played a part in making it all happen.

Sincerely,
Aelred

I feel your pain. The new toolset is a lot less forgiving and more meticulous.

Aelred's concerns are certainly valid, however, I have to comment upon the suggestion of Free XP for people's PCs - this would disprortionately reward one segment of ALFA's contributors and ends up being unfair. Many ALFAns contribute an enormous amount of time and effort to ALFA, and some even contribute money, in ways other than building servers. Unless these people are also rewarded for their efforts, an "XP for contribution" system would simply be unfair. And of course, if we DID adopt an XP for contribution system, then lots of folks, like Admin and DMs and Staff, would suddenly get huge XP boosts which the rest of ALFA would likely think are unfair. So, I do not think it is a viable alternative.

This is not too say we should not be concerned about building - we should be. We do need to get our NWN2 servers built.

I think you raise many valid points. For as short a time as you've been a part of this community, you have worked harder for it than some people who have been with this community since the beginning. Do not think this goes unnoticed and unappreciated by a large amount of people who love ALFA and the community.

While actual toolsetting can be hard for many people to get into, I think you are spot on with your ideas about how people can otherwise contribute.

Perhaps a content committee or a content manager who can communicate with the builders and see what kind of things they need, who can then recruit folks to try to get those done.

I for one would be reluctant to just up and say to a DM, "Hey! You should put in a quest where so and so does this and folks get that" without knowing how that team is going about the business of getting stuff done.

But if, for example, a content manager could coordinate with the builders and determine what NPCs need made, how many non-canon NPCs and for what they could use and even basic parameters for static content, then they could let folks know exactly what ideas are most sought after.

ie:

We need a quest series started by NPC X that can send the player in a loop to get a feel for where various areas are in the City. We would like to use all canon areas as presented in Sourcebook H.

Then someone could look into the sourcebook, figure out what the areas are and then come up with a series of minor quests that end with the player getting a general layout of several key areas of the server (this was the Waterdeep 'Making the Rounds' quests started by Filiare).

Many people might not know what kinds of ideas are welcome (Xanathar quests on Cormanthor, because I don't really know they are a Waterdeep-centric faction) but if given some direction and the knowledge they are doing something specifically asked for could provide the impetus for a bit more help, at least on the creative content side.

I think the call for aid is an important one, and I hope it reaches some willing ears (eyes?). The NWN2 toolset is challenging, but much of what seems overwhelming with it are the bits that folks like Aelred, Indio, Thangorn, Teric, and others are tackling- it really doesn't take that much to make interiors, conversations, NPCs, creatures, or items.

I feel like quite a few are dismissing NWN2 as "too broken to bother with"- based on early experience with unstable multiplayer modules or the original campaign I can understand their sentiment to some extent. However, recent patches have addressed many of NWN2's shortcomings- and our core scripts have many quite significant improvements, both over ALFA's NWN1, and the base NWN2. I'm doing what I can to bring those improvements out to where they can be showcased on Indio's beta server, and soon on others as well.

A few things:

Heed's PC tools: Adapted from a vault system- if you've never used it, you will have to try to believe it. Simply put, it adds a whole new dimention to RP. Instead of just how you *emote* and speak, you now have 150+ animations you can play nearly instantly with your PC- no more using an emote ball and winding through tiers of convo options to find the emote you want- it sits in it's own minimizable window- all the animations can be played looping or as single-shot, and there are a pile of VFX props as well (rake, musical instruments, beer stein, wine bottle, etc). I could play with this stuff for hours just trying to imagine uses for some of them.

Resting system: ALFA's resting system in NWN2 is far and above what we had in NWN1- the rest button will no longer be an OOC mechanic to recharge spells. Divine caster regain their spells by praying for them- which they can do anywhere- at their diety's shrine, or deep in the caves of the enemy, while their companions guard them. Mages work similarly, no more searching for an inn room in order to be able to open a spellbook. Resting enables the spell restoration (and of course, refreshes innate casters), and needs to be done in proper context. However, and importantly- if you've been logged off continuously for longer than a game-day (~3.5 RL hours), you'll find your PC already rested when you log in- it'll be ready to go from the moment you log on- no more wasted time looking for an inn to OOC rest to regain the spells lost to casting last time you were on, a week ago. Ditto for lingering damage- if your fighter was 20 hp down last week, he'll have had plenty of time to heal naturally by the time you play him again. This is just another example of how we are adding to the IC experience for NWN2-ALFA.

Spawn system: Remember the lag-time associated with NESS area spawns? Walking a third of the way into a new area, only to have baddies spawn right surrounding your PC? That's a thing of the past, thanks to Ronan's ALFA Spawn system. Spawns trigger when you enter the AT into an area, rather than when you arrive it in- so they are neatly populated by the server while your PC is loading the area still. Your future arrival point is marked by the server and checked for proximity to spawns- unless the builder has specifically marked that spawn point to spawn within sight range, it will be aborted if it would have fired too close to your arrival. Spawns are randomizable in number, placement, and spread.

Seamless ATs: How many times did you cross-AT with another player? AT into a hostile spawn? AT into an area without a return AT, stranding you until a DM could bail you out? Our seamless AT system was written from the ground-up with these things in mind. A small VFX plays at your destination in the next area the moment you enter a seamless AT (unless you are sneaking). Didn't mean to AT? no problem- back off, and you won't be pulled through to the other side. You have a few seconds after the message, before you cross over. Hostiles near your AT destination? You ought to be able to see them, since the area boundries don't exist IC. The Seamless AT will fail with a warning- if your spot check is good, you may even get information on what is waiting out there.

There is more, of course- but these are a few of the things that are ready and working now- some are already running on "ALFA 003: The Savage Frontier" - the rest and more are coming in the next week or so.

NWN2 is a challenge- and not an insignificant one. But through teamwork and effort we can not just make it work- but make it excel. I'd ask all of you who are skeptical about it to give it another look- so far it really has just been a handful of us trying to keep the flame burning. I have confidence, though, that enthusiasm will surge once people see what we have going, and what is nor far ahead now.

Umm... really just thinking out loud here. Would it be possible to break down a large piece of work into much smaller pieces, of say things that will take a few hours to do and hand those out to people who want to help, but aren't really interested in committing themselves to helping to the extraodinary degree of Aelred, indio or Thangs? It might encourage a few more people to help out.

Making a shop interior, or a generic house interior, or a few outfits- any of those are 5 to 90 minute tasks, and fully transferable. Just export and email- we can get more detailed instructions up if necessary.

Well i've told a few about this anyway, so might as well make an announcement here:

I think we can generate interest by getting some early beta content up.

As some others of you know, i've been working on a NWN2 server, Baldur's Gate, despite the fact that i'm not on the "official list" of NWN2 servers. I still hope to make it a part of ALFA.

To this end, in the first week of september i am going to host a NWN2 DM quest, and hopefully leave the server up for folks to explore.

I'll post some more details about it as it gets near, but all you have to do is come play. We'll figure everything else out from there.

Before my laptop and desktop took their lives in a suicide pact the NWN2 toolset utterly defeated me. Even attempting something as simple as a hat would cause me to descend to unknown depths of bitterness, hate and frustration. That being said I could perhaps assist in some sort of writing function and if I am ever feeling particularly hateful towards myself I might even try the toolset again once day (that is if i ever get a new PC)

I can imagine your pain quite well, and i am merely a hired sword on the abr team. That said, building/scripting is and will always be its own reward. You do it for the fun of contributing to the project, or you don't.

The real problem imho lies with the fact that so few people have the knowledge to script and use that toolset with efficiency.

Maybe if we put some drastic russian politics in action like "every alfean must build one area"...

AcadiusLost wrote:Making a shop interior, or a generic house interior, or a few outfits- any of those are 5 to 90 minute tasks, and fully transferable. Just export and email- we can get more detailed instructions up if necessary.

I would send this spec straight back to my BA with notes such as:

"How many different generic house interiors do you need?"
"What side should the entrance/exit be on?"
"How many rooms?"
"How many bedrooms?"
"Should it have a bathroom?"
"Should interiors be only one tile, or are you in favour of the tardis effect?"
"How run down/oppulent?"
"What kind of shops do you need?"
"Do you want NPCs?"
"Should shopkeepers be reachable by PCs, or can/should they be hidden behind a counter that goes from wall to wall?"
"What custom content should be used?"
"Do you want ATs?"



Seriously, if I'm going to do something, I would want it to be used, and the more you're sure of what you want and express what you want, the more sure I am that what I do will suit you.

So... I'd say, pick a single interior you want, describe it properly and hand it out. Even if you use more or less the same description for 20 different interiors, that's fine, as long as you want those 20 different interiors and just aren't looking for spare parts you may or may not use... otherwise it could be a bit demotivating...

ayergo wrote:As some others of you know, i've been working on a NWN2 server, Baldur's Gate, despite the fact that i'm not on the "official list" of NWN2 servers. I still hope to make it a part of ALFA.

Screens?

Aelred burning out would be a massive blow to us and we really ought to shift heaven and earth to stop it. I know if he stopped building I'd find it harder to find the enthusiasm to keep going as he, Thangorn and Teric are inspirational builders who I love working with.

That said, as I've said before, there were really very few builders for the first wave of NWN1 servers....probably 5 of us who were behind the first few servers and got them live. If we can do that, if we can get 3 servers up live and create a campaign out of them, that's when the rest of the community will get on board the building train.

If anyone wants to help beyond the super-basic things like interiors or items, we can organize a class in IRC or something. Exterior building would be very helpful.

If you're interested PM me. Before you dismiss it, please forget anything you've been told about NWN2's toolset and don't believe the whiners. It takes more time to build an area and a little more time to learn (it's no longer just assembling legos) but it is not difficult. Any of you can do it. Unless you're missing both arms or something, then it might be some trouble.

If you want to just do interiors, it is dirt simple just like it was in NWN. Even without arms you could do it.

Anyway, if you want to learn exterior building I (and others, presumably) will teach. Anyone telling you NWN2 is too broken to use or whatever is full of crap and should be treated as such. Come learn and see the truth of the supremely awesome toolset!

This may not be a terribly attractive idea to the builders, but it's something I've been thinking of lately so I'll toss it out there...

I had thought about writing up a collection of NPC descriptions and submitting them somewhere. How about a thread for everyone to write up descriptions? There, builders could claim them as they like. ("Hey, that's perfect for my Blacksmith Assistant or my Barmaid or my Bouncer"). These descriptions would be vague enough for broad applicability but yet rich enough to provide players with that depth and detail we all like to see in a server's NPCs. Not only that but the descriptions might include mannerisms or accents so that a possessing DM can take a quick peek and get a better handle on how to RP him/her.

Anyway, much applause to all you builders out there! Especially you Aelred. I remember DMing your very well-played Lathanderite bard way back when. Now look at ya! Yer an uber-trooper-builder!

Aelred wrote:For example: I am creating a wizard training school with actual class instruction dialoged - I need ideas for the names and subjects of the classes as well as the teachers conversations/dialogs and quest ideas related to taking the classes - I post the request in my server thread and ask the community for help thru their creative posts. Ideas will come and generate more movement and more ideas which will help to bring things to life.

Well, I love this idea. Toolsetting in NWN2 is totally beyond me, I couldn't even manage to make a custom suit of armor despite building four mods in NWN1, but a forum thread to post content in would be easy enough. Is there a format to make a conversation posted to a forum easier to import into a conversation tree in the toolset? I have to admit, I couldn't even figure out the conversation tree in NWN1, being a computer noob. When it comes to me and computers, if it isn't point and click usable, it doesn't get used....