I am saying goodbye to ALFA

[Voersaa]

*Enters the ALFA boards looks around and then nods*

"Oh yes, still the same BS politics..."

*Turn and walk out*

[JaydeMoon]

The reason being they make you do things best for the company you work in, not what the easiest for you. They make you work, how dare they!

Hypothetically, as this is what keeps being said, again and again:

Is collapsing other important parts of the company to make sure your part of the company shines in the best interests of the Company?

Or do you compromise?

Operations is definitely important, but without infrastructure and logistics to back it, does it matter how good of an operation you have? When the service executive does something you disagree with, is it OK for you to berate them with open hostility, cursing at, belittling, and threatening them?

I think Rusty has always done a fine job, technically, but I wonder if we'd be doing any better if we had someone who wasn't doing AS fine a job, but allowed for more internal harmony between all the working parts?

Might be that there wouldn't be any difference and it might be that we've come as far as we have despite Rusty's "poor behavior". It might be that we've come this far BECAUSE of it. It's something we can never know.

In the end, it's what voters have to weigh.

Is it worth the strife to have someone in charge that is 'getting the job done' but shaking the company apart? Do we hope that when the dust settles, we'll still have enough left for everything to be in working order?

Or do we prefer someone who can get the job done, perhaps not as conclusively, but a hell of a lot more smoothly?

Could be he's shaking out the chaff... could be he's sabotaging the community.


Voter's made their choice, we are seeing one of the potential results of that choice. Could be a horrible thing has happened here. Could end up being the best thing that could have happened for the server. I can't see into the future.

There will be many more 'results' to come. Some will be good, some will be bad. Hard to predict...

There is a recall motion on the floor... two more Admin or HDMs to back that motion and the voters will have a chance to rethink their stance. The way the votes fall is always very telling in drama heavy issues like this.

[Nalo Jade]

I must confess that I have been a hibernating troll for so long that I am completely clueless as to the history of this situation, please take my previous posts with a grain of salt as they are filled with my ignorance.

I am fairly certain I know Rick's virtual persona pretty well, and I will hold that it will be a loss to ALFA, I cannot see any good comming from his departure, but as Jayde stated very well...I too cannot see the future.

I still think the ultimate achievement and something that I have not seen happen in this community, would be for two rivals to find a way to come together and move past it.

Imagine if you will that Vendrin and I had joined forces instead of wasting your time with, interesting yet mind numbingly pointless flame wars.

Where is that a$$hat anyway?

[AcadiusLost]

I've certainly felt that we need a strong DMA, who isn't unwilling to perform the responsibilities of the position just because it may ruffle some feathers, or offend a few people here or there. For quite a while, I've thought that Rusty embodied that well. I've winced and shook my head when he's chosen unnecessarily rude, demeaning, or dismissive ways to express himself, but it always seemed like he had the project's best interests in mind.

Admittedly, I suspect I missed the majority of the "statgate" drama since I'm not a DM these days- but to me, this seemed a turning point. Rusty's resignation as DMA, citing what appeared to be an acceptance that people just weren't going to see things his way. At the time, this saddened me, because there had been a lot depending on a solid, organized, and active DMA left to do for the transition to NWN2. I would have rather seen amends made, than have Rusty quit over things- but I could respect the idea of resigning after reaching an understanding that one's strong convictions just don't work in a given environment. It's the most mature way to handle that sort of situation- if the differences are irreconcilable, probably the mature thing to do is to step aside.

But, Rusty didn't step aside. Instead, what seemed like a mature step (rather than battling with other candidates in a flame-filled election, let ALFA's DMs decide who else would be best to pick up the mantle)- turned into a stunt for attention, and a lightning rod for attacking the credibility of the entire rest of the Admin staff. For me, this is when it became pretty clear that the strong convictions that had seemed an attribute before, were just getting out of hand.

Since that time, I have increasingly seen Rusty refuse to even consider the perspective of others, or to even acknowledge the possibility that he may have been anything other than a stellar leader. He seems to believe he can do no wrong, which for me is an unacceptable trait in a leader.

I was not vocal during the last DMA election, because I thought both Rick and Jayde were qualified candidates, and I expected at the least, one or the other of them would go into a runoff, and win by a healthy margin- out of respect for the hard work he has done, I didn't want to speak out about my disappointment in Rusty's conduct. I thought that between the statements of Cipher, Indio, and other luminaries, it would be pretty clear that Rusty had painted himself into a corner, from which he could no longer effectively lead in this community.

So, I don't know what to think with regards to the seventeen votes cast for Rusty in the DMA election. Some may have been people who ignored the recent events, and went with the (semi) incumbent, on the presumption that this would be the best way to ensure a smooth transition to Live. Maybe some were people who were following the events, and were convinced that Rusty really was the "only admin who does not think cheating is wrong", or whatever other invocative claims were thrown around. Maybe some were hung up on impressions of Jayde and/or Rick formed from the early days of ALFA, before Standards were agreed upon. Maybe some just thought we need a "hard DMA", and didn't realize how sharp the doubledged sword really was.

What those seventeen voters thought, and continue to think, will likely decide whether or not the recall goes through. Will this recent twist with Rick change any of those minds? It's hard to say for me, since I don't know why they voted as they did. I would just hope if it does come to a vote, that each of them weigh things carefully. I'd normally say you'd have to be crazy to recall DMA days before Live- but right now, I'm not so sure- it's not a time to be unyielding and divisive, rude and dismissive. I'd rather move to ALFA live with no DMA (and a functional team of TSM DMs) than with this DMA, and no one to bring TSM to life. The push to Live requires flexibility and a willingness to compromise- and that's not something I'm seeing in the slightest now.

[Mayhem]

Rick ran against Rusty.
Rick lost in a fair vote.
Rick decides to quit.
Hialmar immediately decides this is grounds for recalling Rusty, and some other folks jump aboard the bandwagon.

Why don't we cut out the middle men, forget this voting nonsense, and just award Admin posts to the people that Hialmar and his friends think are most useful.

[Nalo Jade]

*gets popcorn*

[danielmn]

"Hialmar immediately decides this is grounds for recalling Rusty, and some other folks jump aboard the bandwagon."


Or...people are tired of waves being made, always seeming to involve one person. Not just one wave, but many instances in which the good of the community is put to the side for the good of self and pocket of control, or perhaps it is just the rigidness of office, instead of fluidity. Here is how it is to be done, nothing less and nothing other will do. The nature of anything is to adapt and grow by compromise and willingness to change ones mind...else, that thing becomes extinct because of non-adaptability.

I have never seen a harder working DMA.
I have also never seen anyone tougher to get along with, from the veiw of many.

I weigh the two, and wonder...

[Mayhem]

"Hialmar immediately decides this is grounds for recalling Rusty, and some other folks jump aboard the bandwagon."


Or...people are tired of waves being made, always seeming to involve one person. Not just one wave, but many instances in which the good of the community is put to the side for the good of self and pocket of control, or perhaps it is just the rigidness of office, instead of fluidity.

Then maybe they should have voted for Rick. Folks voted fro Rusty fully knowign his past record. If one persons histrionics are subsequently considered grounds for overturning that vote, why bother even having the vote in the first place?

[psycho_leo]

"Hialmar immediately decides this is grounds for recalling Rusty, and some other folks jump aboard the bandwagon."


Or...people are tired of waves being made, always seeming to involve one person. Not just one wave, but many instances in which the good of the community is put to the side for the good of self and pocket of control, or perhaps it is just the rigidness of office, instead of fluidity.

Then maybe they should have voted for Rick. Folks voted fro Rusty fully knowign his past record. If one persons histrionics are subsequently considered grounds for overturning that vote, why bother even having the vote in the first place?

If the recall motion passes, the same people that voted Rusty in will have the opportunity to decide wether or not he should remain in office. For good or bad, the recall mechanism is part of our charter.

[danielmn]

I wholeheartedly agree with you mayhem...
Alfa has gotten what the agreed to voters wanted.
How long?

Not long....Cause what you reap, is what you sow.

[Veilan]

Heh, and if the recall fails, we'll start the next one or what?

Sheesh. Now I'm certainly not saying Rusty isn't rude from time to time, but all this is not only out of proportion but outright counterproductive, especially as in this particular instance, I cannot grasp what the outrage is - I saw Rick's app, thought all would be fine, and some hours later he had quit without any doing by Rusty.

In this case, there really doesn't seem to be any blood on his bronco.

[JaydeMoon]

I dunno, Mayhem, you seem to be REALLY oversimplifying it.

[danielmn]

I do agree that the recall motion is a bit out of line. I say let ALFA have Rusty as DMA for as many times as it decides to vote him in office. Hopefully, as a neutrally alligned member, I won't be driven away in the meantime...but who can say for sure?

Respect the Rank, not the Man.

Daniel

[Rotku]

Heh, and if the recall fails, we'll start the next one or what?

Well, unless the following DMA screws up as well, there's not a very high chance that a recall would succeed twice in a row. If it does, I think we have a big big problem, far passing one DMA's arrogance.

On a slight side note, you notice it's always the Infra Admin putting forward the motion for a recall against the DMA?
Infact, to take that one step further, you notice it's always the DMA getting recall motions against him/her?

As for the matter of the recall itself, I'm in two minds. One, if it's a choice between Rusty and Rick, I would take Rick any day without a second thought. However, with ALFA going Live in half a week, it might be a bit more difficult if we do not have a DMA in office. My suggestion would be wait until we have seen ALFA enter Live and then, if people still wish to, put foward the motion to recall.

[Godpuppet]

I dont know either Rusty or Rick personally, nor have I had any good or bad experiences with them. But ive been reading this incident and the responses by both involved party's, and my opinion is that this is an over reaction by Rick, though to a degree its understandable.

Rusties arguement, that in the interests of equality, we all fill out an application to DM is in my eyes a valid one. Allowing people "special" rights over others allows jealousy and even greater rivalry, the absence of such a system can only cause disruption in ALFA.

Looking at the application it would be nice to see the questions, I dont understand why admins need to keep secrecy. But at any rate, it looks relatively easy to complete, reading Rick's initial reply I was expecting reams of information required in this application. When in reality it could be done in five minutes.

Rick even filed one before his departure. So clearly, despite loathing this process he was still abiding by it. What must have caused his departure, must have been in that pm.

The only flaw I can spot in Rusty is his personality. He's to the point and often callous in his responses, theres no consideration or kindness. Becuase of this, his words can be manipulated depending on the mood of the reader. I read the PM's in the OP at the creation of this thread and they're intentions were completely different to reading them later Rusty's reply.

I often work in welfare groups and in working with volunteers, you've got to understand, people dont have to be there. You've got to take into consideration other peoples feelings & opinions, and you've got to be extremely diplomatic. You have to make sure, that through your words, you show others that their feelings & opinions are taken into consideration. Rusty reads like a lawyer, and people just dont warm to that.

Your not there to be the boss, your there to be the glue that brings things together. The best managers are not managers who rule with an iron fist. But people that put themselves second and the project first.

Of course the fact Rusty and Rick were competitors in the last ADM election doesnt help matters. Rick most likely feels insulted by any slight act of authority by Rusty. Then theres hints of some kind of prior disagreement, I dont know if they're related.

I think Rick's tolerance of Rusty reached a point where it shadowed his passion for ALFA.

Now I commend Rusty, for being the one to suggest putting hostilities aside in that thread. But again, in the manner it was written, and the mood Rick was in. It was clearly miss interpreted.

Its a shame I guess, we've lost a server, a builder and what is commonly agreed as a great part of this project. I never knew Rick but im already noticing the effects of his loss.