Planetouched for ALFA-NWN2

dergon darkhelm · Post by **dergon darkhelm** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:26 pm

Makes me start wanting to have a race token system that can alter default NPC reactions to various races to account for local/regional social norms.

It worked great on Geo's ES (that's where I played before heading to ALFA).

Your half-orc walked up to the dwarven keep and was met with a hail of axes. You could do an extensive set of statics to make the dwarves tolerate your presence ( culminating in bringing the head of a duergar as a token of allegiance) or you could do DM run quests and have it altered that way.

Perhaps we should take a longer look at this for an option.

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:03 pm

dergon darkhelm wrote:Perhaps we should take a longer look at this for an option.

It's always an option. When would you like to get started working on it?

dergon darkhelm · Post by **dergon darkhelm** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:19 pm

I don't script.

Doesn't mean it isn't a valid idea or topic for discussion.

Who knows.....it could even help.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:46 pm

So, it appears that we've come to some admissions:

1. All PC's should elicit a response everywhere they go, ideally. This world does after all exist for them, and them alone.
2. A static, rarely DM'ed world fails to interact with PC's in an appropriate manner without a global race/reputation system that no one is ever going to make.
3. In a PW, PC's are in a static, rarely DM'ed world.

Which IMO leads to the conclusion to let people play whatever they want (that's available out of the box, no extra building), have the players be responsible for rp'ing appropriate actions in different locations (as guided by a stickied forum thread for every server), even though the NPC's are ignoring them, and otherwise just handwave it all away in the name of fun, like we do for every other aspect of D&D that gets broken in a rarely DM'ed PW.

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:14 pm

Thank you all for the input! Obviously we have many differing opinions, but there were some trends in the mix which suggest answers to the questions I posed:

(a) should we allow other planetouched races?

A: Yes, it seems we should. A few people have argued against their inclusion for several reasons, but the majority of folks seem to be in favor of inclusion.

(b) If so, which ones? Genasi seem to be a favorite people are calling for, Fey'ri too, though they might be hard to implement and it might not be possible at all to implement the ones with high-LA value. What about half-celestials/half-fiends, or is their LA value (+4) too high? Allowing half-celestials or half-fiends might be too much, but what about tannaruks? Too monstrous?

A: The answer here seems to be that we should allow those raises which NWN2 includes "out of the box." So, Tieflings and Aasimar would be in for sure, I am not sure about Genasi - are they included in NWN2? If so, we would include them, if not, then I would recommend not including them. The more powerful planetouched, like the half-celestials and half-fiends, shall be unplayable as a PC.

(c) Assuming we allow planetouched races, should we leave them open to anyone who wants to play them? Or, should we restrict their availability?

Here we seem to have a very strong concensus that availibility should be open.

(d) IF we restrict the availibility of planetouched races, HOW do we do that fairly? Application system? Character-trade in (i.e. play a normal PC until level X then "trade it in" for access to a planetouched race)? Lottery style? What do you think?

As people are generally infavor of leaving the races open to all, this question is moot.

I realize not everyone will agree with my conclusions above, but at this point, those represent the answers I believe the bulk of ALFAns desire, so those will be the basis for the policy I will draft and put forward for Admin to review and decide upon.

Burt · Post by **Burt** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:16 pm

They represent my answers and that's what matters.

Grand Fromage · Post by **Grand Fromage** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:18 pm

Mikayla wrote:I am not sure about Genasi - are they included in NWN2?

They're being added with the expansion.

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:24 pm

So I read right after I made my post. Accordingly, I will support/recommend that the Admin adopt a policy for NWN2 allowing tieflings, aasimar and genasi as they are all a part of the NWN2 game.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:57 pm

fluffmonster wrote:plane-touched don't require any more special attention than a half-orc. If DMs want to be hands-on about various races, that's going to bind well before plane-touched show up...non-humans in Luskan, for example; half-orcs in Cormyr; elves in Sembia. This happens anyway, there is no additional cost to planetouched. The argument that planetouched will require work that isn't already done is pretty vacuous.

There is additional cost to planetouched, in that this happens for them pretty much everywhere (particularly tieflings). By adding additional races that require special attention we are clearly increasing the demand on DMs for reactive environmental DMing; that we have some races that require this already is besides the point. Planetouched place an extraordinary burden on DMs, both IG and building; whether they are 'desired' or not, until this burden is properly considered and mitigated, their inclusion represents a definite problem for NWN2 ALFA.

fluffmonster · Post by **fluffmonster** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:33 pm

My apologies...I wasn't aware that other races have no need for reactive environmental DMing.

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:37 pm

Rusty:
fluffmonster wrote:
plane-touched don't require any more special attention than a half-orc. If DMs want to be hands-on about various races, that's going to bind well before plane-touched show up...non-humans in Luskan, for example; half-orcs in Cormyr; elves in Sembia. This happens anyway, there is no additional cost to planetouched. The argument that planetouched will require work that isn't already done is pretty vacuous.

There is additional cost to planetouched, in that this happens for them pretty much everywhere (particularly tieflings). By adding additional races that require special attention we are clearly increasing the demand on DMs for reactive environmental DMing; that we have some races that require this already is besides the point. Planetouched place an extraordinary burden on DMs, both IG and building; whether they are 'desired' or not, until this burden is properly considered and mitigated, their inclusion represents a definite problem for NWN2 ALFA.

No more of a problem than Elves in Sembia, or humans in parts of Myth Drannor, or drow on the surface, or surfacers in the underdark, or ... well, you get the picture. As has been pointed out, most of the races would need "reactive" DMing in ALFA as not all of ALFA is freely accessible to any one race, let alone all races. So, while Planetouched may present challenges, they are not challenges new to ALFA, nor are they insurmountable challenges. And the bulk of ALFA seems to want planetouched, planetouched are in the NWN2 game and in the FRCS as playable races, so, it seems to me we should include them.

wvincenti · Post by **wvincenti** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:52 pm

Mikayla wrote:No more of a problem than Elves in Sembia, or humans in parts of Myth Drannor, or drow on the surface, or surfacers in the underdark, or ... well, you get the picture. As has been pointed out, most of the races would need "reactive" DMing in ALFA as not all of ALFA is freely accessible to any one race, let alone all races. So, while Planetouched may present challenges, they are not challenges new to ALFA, nor are they insurmountable challenges. And the bulk of ALFA seems to want planetouched, planetouched are in the NWN2 game and in the FRCS as playable races, so, it seems to me we should include them.

Just being curious how should the run of the mill PC react to Planetouched? Do we move straight to tarring and feathering them or do we look real hard for excuses not to? Do Players RPing Planetouched need to be as prepared for ugliness as folks RPing Drow?

By the way, I find all sorts of excuses for not moving towards violence when encountering Drow PCs, usually based on the assumption that it's a situation best handled delicately since they are normally not pushovers when encountered on the surface.

-Bill

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:54 pm

Good grief, if Planetouched demand universal reactive DMing and appropriate building, then adding them to the game world as player races unarguably increases the demand placed on DMs. The comparison with existing races is wholly irrelevant because what is of concern is not the existence of these needs, but the effect Planetouched PCs will have of adding to them. ALFA does not benefit from policy made with reference to an unquantified 'bulk' or by ignoring the burdens placed on the people who make playing a PC of any sort possible. Now, it may be that popular will mitigates the clear and present problems Planetouched PCs create, but that is not established by ignoring those problems and proceeding to shape policy along the lines of uninformed phpBB quoting.

Lusipher · Post by **Lusipher** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:45 pm

How hard can it really be to DM a planetouched PC? Their basically augmented standard race with slight qualities of their Planar Parentage. I imagine in most of the Realms they would be distrusted except in certain cities areas like Thay, which have tons of planetouched individuals. It would be awesome for folks who want to play a PC who is somewhat different, someone who might shy away from society, and someone who might have to endure some racism, stares, etc. Whats so hard for a DM to have to Dm them? The planetouched fit into the world of Toril not the world of Toril fitting into the Planes.

I can see a lot of ideas for how planetouched could be played and if I can do it im sure a player and DM can talk with each other and work things out. They do not need special attention given to them to make them work in our project. I dunno I guess I dont understand why the concerns about DMs having problems Dming or building things around them.

fluffmonster · Post by **fluffmonster** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:07 pm

Exactly what kind of reactions are we talking about here? Rusty, you seem to be equating planetouched being treated essentially as drow, but I don't think the rest of us believe it should be like that. You seem to be indicating a base level of scrutiny on RP for planetouched that, by your argument, doesn't apply to other races, a particular standard that does apply to drow. You seem to rely on the particular example of tieflings. What about genasi? How are they going to be treated any different from a half-orc?

The thing is, these questions already have answers. Already DM teams are quite accustomed to giving each PC a little attention. Already if players are misbehaving at all, DM teams can just kick 'em off. Already, servers are quite explicit about race-based RP expectations. There's plenty of understanding of the consequences of RP choice. What we don't do is tell people what of the available races they have to play. Of the question of availability, we have an easily available context-rich benchmark, the FRCS.

Maybe people just don't want planetouched which is fine (and also a question of popular sentiment), but I don't get how you can justify treating planetouched with such attention as if it was tremendously different from what's given to other PCs. Unless yer out to get them, but even so get them in-game, not ooc.