OAS Discussion Continued

[oldgrayrogue]

I think we need a reality check here. I think an open MS as an OAS is a great idea for the reasons stated in the locked thread but claims of "averting potential crises" and the need for very well established procedures etc are a bit overblown IMO. ALFA needs less stupid rules, not more. We collectively need to spend more time in game RPing as players and DMs than arguing on the boards about it and all the bad things that can happen. And server favoritism? Seriously? Our numbers seem pretty consistent across servers to me, except for TSM, and I'd say that DM coverage with active campaigns is the number one reason for any discrepancies. Also, I have been playing on MS pretty regularly, and -- newsflash -- there are NOT a flood of new PGing noobs invading ALFA. To the contrary I have encountered ONE new player who clearly has the RP chops to play here but is a bit hung up on whether permadeath is right for her. From what I can see, most of the regular players on MS are ALFA mainstays as well. So I am pretty sure any new players running around for Lulz and loot will be dealt with in very short order. An open MS is simply a way for us to capture and identify potential new players. It removes a barrier to applicants that most servers do not require -- the application and password. Why put up barriers out of concern over things that the numbers and experience to date simply do not support? We are not a static community and policies once enacted are not carved in stone (although some would apparently like to see it that way *cough* Veilan *cough*). We are trying something that was done before in a new way. Lets try it out and let it develop and see if we can actually get some new blood in here.

Swift and Veilan you are both excellent RPers and would be perfect as OAS DMs. If you are so concerned with being "gatekeepers of ALFA" then go for it. Sign up to be OAS DMs. I for one will not question a single applicant that both of you decide is suitable for ALFA.

[oldgrayrogue]

I want to add something to the prior post -- I think serious consideration should be given to making TSM the open OAS server instead of MS. This is no knock on MS, but TSM as our longest running server has most of the kinks worked out of it, and is well developed in terms of static quests and content that will keep new players trying out ALFA engaged when no DMs are around. Curm would have to agree of course, but I think TSM is a nice server to showcase all that ALFA has to offer. Again, no knock on MS, but without a DM on there is not a lot to do for lowbies on MS that I have found. There is a ton of content for low levels on TSM, however. Curm would have to agree of course but I think you guys should consider it. It might help boost the numbers and DM coverage on TSM a bit too.

[t-ice]

Again, no knock on MS, but without a DM on there is not a lot to do for lowbies on MS that I have found. There is a ton of content for low levels on TSM, however. Curm would have to agree of course but I think you guys should consider it. It might help boost the numbers and DM coverage on TSM a bit too.

Yes.

This goes to server design so sort of topic creep, but having recently rolled up a toon at TSM, I think there's one addition to static content that would help new players tremendously: A couple centralized locations to "advertise" the (low-level) static content available. So the player can choose what would be appropriate for the toon. In-character only the most low-int and low-wis would wander around asking everyone when looking for work. Rather one would head to a central hub where such things would be advertised, either in writing or more likely by word of mouth. So head to the tavern or the marketplace to listen to rumours of places where what kind of jobs might be on offer.

In practice that would mean conversation items on barkeepers and/or market folks that would tell what kind of work could be had where. In a stretch it could be a forum sticky, even, but of course IC is far superior.

[Veilan]

I obviously can't endorse making it TSM as that would be massively in my self-interest. We all want to loot corpses, err, interact with the fresh players and the additional DMs.

[Swift]

Again, no knock on MS, but without a DM on there is not a lot to do for lowbies on MS that I have found. There is a ton of content for low levels on TSM, however. Curm would have to agree of course but I think you guys should consider it. It might help boost the numbers and DM coverage on TSM a bit too.

Yes.

This goes to server design so sort of topic creep, but having recently rolled up a toon at TSM, I think there's one addition to static content that would help new players tremendously: A couple centralized locations to "advertise" the (low-level) static content available. So the player can choose what would be appropriate for the toon. In-character only the most low-int and low-wis would wander around asking everyone when looking for work. Rather one would head to a central hub where such things would be advertised, either in writing or more likely by word of mouth. So head to the tavern or the marketplace to listen to rumours of places where what kind of jobs might be on offer.

In practice that would mean conversation items on barkeepers and/or market folks that would tell what kind of work could be had where. In a stretch it could be a forum sticky, even, but of course IC is far superior.

The only issue being how much OOC information do we want to put into the server? The trouble TSM would have with this is that the server has attempted to cover a vast amount of land. What do the people of Silverymoon know (or care) about the problems in Rivermoot? They wouldn't, so they don't ever bring it up.

Easiest would be to simply take away the options for where you start, so all new characters have to start in the town with the most low level static content. It is certainly one that could be investigated.

[oldgrayrogue]

Again, no knock on MS, but without a DM on there is not a lot to do for lowbies on MS that I have found. There is a ton of content for low levels on TSM, however. Curm would have to agree of course but I think you guys should consider it. It might help boost the numbers and DM coverage on TSM a bit too.

Yes.

This goes to server design so sort of topic creep, but having recently rolled up a toon at TSM, I think there's one addition to static content that would help new players tremendously: A couple centralized locations to "advertise" the (low-level) static content available. So the player can choose what would be appropriate for the toon. In-character only the most low-int and low-wis would wander around asking everyone when looking for work. Rather one would head to a central hub where such things would be advertised, either in writing or more likely by word of mouth. So head to the tavern or the marketplace to listen to rumours of places where what kind of jobs might be on offer.

In practice that would mean conversation items on barkeepers and/or market folks that would tell what kind of work could be had where. In a stretch it could be a forum sticky, even, but of course IC is far superior.

The only issue being how much OOC information do we want to put into the server? The trouble TSM would have with this is that the server has attempted to cover a vast amount of land. What do the people of Silverymoon know (or care) about the problems in Rivermoot? They wouldn't, so they don't ever bring it up.

Easiest would be to simply take away the options for where you start, so all new characters have to start in the town with the most low level static content. It is certainly one that could be investigated.

I think this is where other players come in, honestly. My more established PCs have often acted as "tour guides" for new players PCs -- basically walking around with them and describing the areas in an IC way and suggesting where they can find work, what areas to avoid, what is safe or dangerous -- all ICly. Also, most players when logging on to a new server do talk to most everyone, especially when no one else is on. I don't think it is a big issue. One thing paazin did on BG was to make the names on all 'nonbackground" NPCs -- i.e. any NPC that has a static interactive convo attached -- appear in "yellow' as opposed to "white." This is a small OOC clue to players who want to interact. If this change was made globally to all servers, with a CLEAR post in new player forums or even on the server description screen IG, problem solved with minimal work.

As to looting corpses of noobs, I am of the opinion that unless a PC manages to die while in party all belongings on the corpse should disappear on the assumption that whatever killed the PC or whatever else wandered by took it before a PC found it.

[Veilan]

"Tour guiding" is a very rewarding experience, and I don't mean in the Lohengrim of Overmeade kind of way.

It'd be even nicer if those trusted tutors / tour guides could be given award tokens to be redeemed with a DM later; we had some of that going on TSM briefly, but only with money awards conveyed via PM.

That way, more people could be involved and ALFA would profit from one of its main assets - living, breathing characters with epic stories behind them, all the more cool in a world of (quasi) perma death.

Cheers,

[Fionn]

The only issue being how much OOC information do we want to put into the server? The trouble TSM would have with this is that the server has attempted to cover a vast amount of land. What do the people of Silverymoon know (or care) about the problems in Rivermoot? They wouldn't, so they don't ever bring it up.

I haven't dealt much with NWN2, but with NWN it would have been trivial to fork the module to put a low level area (e.g. Rivermoot) on it's own server. Can that be done without killing the tech staff or diluting the player pool further?

If we get that set up enough to promote, we can ask everyone to push the new hire guide to their social feeds. YMMV

[Zelknolf]

I haven't dealt much with NWN2, but with NWN it would have been trivial to fork the module to put a low level area (e.g. Rivermoot) on it's own server. Can that be done without killing the tech staff or diluting the player pool further?

This has never been a trivial thing to do-- we've had people who believed it would be trivial, and then tried it and found out it wasn't, but I'm not aware of any instances of it actually being trivial to do. The trick comes in that it's certainly a fairly easy thing to export a bunch of areas and drop them into a new module (which is what people tend to be thinking about when claiming yonder assessment) and then you get to find all of the everything in those areas that was assuming they'd always be part of the server they were taken from, usually because it breaks.

[Rumple C]

And there was much ado about nothing....

[Heero]

Guys and gals, to make this project a great big success you are all going to need to step up by offering something other than just logging in as a player to welcome any potential newcomer. There is probably still some life left in NWN2, but, especially as its player base dwindles in numbers, the servers offering more 'stuff' are going to be the ones that attract people's free time for gaming. This stuff needs to be DM time, most importantly, and static content, both scripted and, well, static, secondly. People want to see progress in their characters, be it progress in the form of XP toward character advancement and/or GP toward gear advancement. I just dont think ALFA can attract more bodies, good RPers or no, by relying upon a slow trickle of RPXP scripts amongst a dearth of actual content, especially in a perma-death world -- the people willing to spend time logging solely to have an IC chat while relying upon slow-trickle XP scripts are probably already here.

I realize DMing isnt for everyone. Heck, I tried running a couple dozen sessions, but ultimately was a failure as a DM. There are other ways to contribute, though. Zelknolf put up a tutorial on how to create simple static quests -- has anyone given this a go? It seemed pretty straight forward to me, but it doesnt look like anyone even gave it a try. Why not? I see no reason any one of you cannot think of a simple static quest that would be of interest to your current PC, spend a little bit of time following Zelk's tutorial, create it, then submit it to an HDM for implementation on one of the servers. Or open the toolset and build an area or two, something that you can give to an HDM, along with a few ideas of [already existing, if you dont plan to build them yourself] critters they can add as spawns, to be included in one of the mods. Just do something.

The tech team - Zelk, Basilica, Foam, Ronan, and Paazin - do a really great job of making the game work better to be more easily playable, but they arent doing much to make the logging in more enjoyable -- this needs to lie on others shoulders, ie you people.

Maybe I am way off base here: maybe ALFA doesnt want to attract players who arent up for spending hours logged in to see the tiniest bit of advancement, be they good RPer or no; and maybe all you current players really dont want more 'stuff' for your PCs to do or see in game, but to me it really looks like the place is becoming more and more like an ever-shrinking pack of starving dogs fighting over what few scraps remain.

Thats all, over and out.

[maxcell]

*cough*

now back to our regularly scheduled topic...

Nice to see the OAS in process in some way shape or form, it is LONG overdue for a return, and I hope it does you some good.
As an HDM of the original OAS, hirer, firer and trainer of new DMs there as well as former Head of Admissions, I will drop some knowledge...

The OAS worked hand in hand with written applications.
Sometimes written applicants were instructed to play on the OAS after the written reviewers hit an impasse on the application.
Every time an applicant was accepted on the OAS, they were instructed to fill out a written application, with or without bio (up to them)
Some applicants took multiple sessions to be approved, because the observing DM, or DMs, wanted to see a bit more from the applicant. Some applicants were so good it only took one session, ... like me.
I trusted my DMs to run sessions, observe, and evaluate then accept or reject on their own.
You want a limited area OAS. It isn't for huge multisession campaigns, or tons of statics, it is for one off, evaluation adventures that allowed applicants to show off their RP in a reserved setting, ie meeting in town, a tavern, travel down a road etc. AND allowed them to experience some excitement ala combat and special effects so the DM would get a good overall experience with the applicant. MS is the better choice for these reasons, unless someone wants to build a mod or resurrect daniel's
OAS DMs and Written app reviewers are two sides of the same coin and need to trust each other, however I don't agree that they should be pulling double duty.
I would suggest that the whole team associated with the OAS remain under the control of the PA not DMA. Official DMs could DM on the OAS, but so could someone who did not want to DM in live alfa but wanted to learn DMing and contribute in some way to player and QUALITY increase.
I'm great, and several in this thread are so very, very, not. It is they which have driven me from contributing more than my vast knowledge to the project as in this post and no it is not Adanu nor even Swift both of whom I hold a great respect for .
The end.....?

[Heero]

several in this thread are so very, very, not

Whatever, bro.

[maxcell]

several in this thread are so very, very, not

Whatever, bro.

you are NEVER in the less than great category.

[Castano]

thanks for your advice Maxcell.

Some points:
DMA does not control the admit process and never intended to. We are just providing the tool by which PA can bring back the OAS
Ideally anyone could be an OAS DM, however because OAS is overlaying MS, we have to abide by the don't play where you DM rule and the rule that only DMs may DM on a live server. That's why I'm accepting any DM onto MS who wants to do the OAS if the PA/Heegz wants them.
I do think that we should have more area for play than the original OAS, if only to attract players. We're not selecting out of a pool of applicants anymore, it's more like trying to attract existing good RPers who are also collegial people (the two do nto go hand in hand).