Time in ALFA - Spells

[Xanthea]

Though why anyone would be more okay with buffing spell durations than making a 100% aesthetic change to allow for better RP is beyond me.

[t-ice]

Though why anyone would be more okay with buffing spell durations than making a 100% aesthetic change to allow for better RP is beyond me.

This. You can get both by slowing the overall time.

[kid]

So why don't we simply fix the core issue of hour per level spells being too short? That particular topic (rather than time as a whole) has been a gripe ever since NWN2 arrived.

That's what this poll/discussion is about.

I still dont get why we choose to ignore the other side of the problem where 10min/lv are way too long.
The fact that this is not a purely DMed setting and that resting takes 2 minutes.

If you want spells to last as long as they do in RL, then you better be willing to have your fellas sleeping for a few good RL hours as well.

We bend time when it suits us. (for travle and sleep at least) Though we grumble when our spells vanish quickly.

Sometimes is sucks to get unbuffed, but at other times you can walk waaay too long distances on the server with a minute level spell. Not to mention crossing all of it with a 10min/level spell.

So im not sure what problem are we solving here.

Doubling the hour to 14 mins inst bad imm, but seriously... we should shorten the 10min/lvl duration just the same, or we risk upsetting the balance of play making casters (who are allready more powerful than nonecasters) even stronger.

Doubling hourly is fine, cutting down 10min should be done at the same time.
Unless someone is claiming casting classes are weaker and need to be biffed up more.

[t-ice]

Sometimes is sucks to get unbuffed, but at other times you can walk waaay too long distances on the server with a minute level spell. Not to mention crossing all of it with a 10min/level spell.

So im not sure what problem are we solving here.

Doubling the hour to 14 mins inst bad imm, but seriously... we should shorten the 10min/lvl duration just the same, or we risk upsetting the balance of play making casters (who are allready more powerful than nonecasters) even stronger.

Agreed that 10min/level spells should more be something like 3 or 5 minutes per level. However, I think the problem here is the way to make it happen tech-wise. We have minutes (IG = RL) and we have hours (IG=constant*RL). But we don't have "10 minutes". So "fixing" the 10 minute spells to be, say, 4 minutes, just makes more of a jumbled mess of hotfixes piled on top of each other.

For what it's worth, I think we should acknowledge that we will never be able to handle the "tactical" spell duration slot that 10 mins is meant to be. Having hour spells last 14 minutes is NOT a proper fix for the difference between 10 minutes and an hour. Rather we should modify the handful 10 minutes per level spells there is to be either minute per level (stoneskin without material component, looking at you) or hour per level (heroism, conviction). Maybe tweak effects a little bit to balance if deemed needed.

[boombrakh]

I am a bit amazed at how people seem to forget that we tend to roleplay in this community when speaking about durations. The last time I checked, we didn't RP in Fast-Forward mode, instead it was more of a Slow-Motion mode where we RP slower than normal people would be. So as soon as you begin to RP while under the influence of a spell with a duration, that duration is just ticking away, while the verbally/socially disabled characters try to force words out of their mouths at a rate that isn't anywhere near "normal".

The only instance where I would say that the duration is fine, is if you enjoy running around, whacking monsters over their heads alone in whatever area you are, without roleplaying. I mean, that way, you done have to be distracted by something as silly as RP and you can fully enjoy your little buffs.

So any talk about decreaseing duration on 10min/level is for me just proof of one or two things:
1) That the player doesn't normally engage in RP while playing a caster and as such doesn't grasp the consequences of that.
2) The player is at a level where it doesn't really matter anyways, so screw the rest of the player base.

We play slower than real life. Let that be the basis on which we decide what duration to use.

[kid]

You forgot c. The player is not a dirty PGer and is willing to suffer what hpappens should he get I buffed.
And d. The player trust his DMs to know and fix things if needed.

[boombrakh]

You forgot c. The player is not a dirty PGer and is willing to suffer what hpappens should he get I buffed.
And d. The player trust his DMs to know and fix things if needed.

Actually, i didn't forget any of that because "C" and "D" aren't relevant.

"C" is just so dumb I wont even bother addressing it.
"D" relies too much on a DM to manage the characters spells.

Assume that the player has a DM available for "D" who can take into account that the characters spells are running out ahead of time due to OOC reasons (such as slow typing, many players talking at the same time, afk etc). Should the DM then refresh that players spells so that he can cast them again? If so, what about the non-buffing spells that the DM also refreshes? Should we rely on the DM to keep track on how many of what spells every player has available? And if he refreshes the spells, should the DM then be forced to keep track of the "correct" duration of the spells? I mean, let's assume the player lost 30% duration on a 10min/level spell and 80% on a 1h/level spell due to OOC reasons and the DM refreshes the spells. Should the DM then have to keep track of which spell lasts how long and then be forced to try to manage those spells? Or should the DM just throw their hands up in the air like they just dont care and let the buffs all of a sudden last way longer than they should have?

If above is your contribution to the debate is it narrow-minded and unhinged from reality. It holds no real value in the debate and only serves as a platform for snide remarks and pot-shots. Arguing that a decrease in duration for 10 min/level spells on the ground that the player isn't (C) a "dirty PGer" implies that anyone who doesn't argue the same point is a "dirty PGer" and I'd like to have higher thoughts on my fellow members than that. And arguing a decrease because the player trusts that his DM will (D) "fix things" just puts way too much responsibility on the DM for my taste. What happens if you die due to buffs running out of time on account of OOC time running away? Are you entitled to a tech-rez then? Is "The other player was too slow" a valid argument?

No, I hope we all know better than that.

[I-KP]

As long as the hour/lvl stuff lasts longer than the 10min/lvl stuff I don’t see a problem, everything else is filibustering as far as I can see.

[kid]

Dumber than casting the single buff spell than wandering great distances with it?
I mean jeez, its not like you are intilted to ...
Oh wait, i fogot, you are intitlent to everything.
Forgot who im talking to.


Anyway, not that hard to slow down debuffing. DM can rebuff if he wishes or pause when RP happens.
And with no DM... really... You dont have to farm ALL the time.
Just farm a little less and you'll be fine.

[boombrakh]

Try to put your petty personal feelings for me along with your snide comments aside for a moment and look at the bigger picture.

Dumber than casting the single buff spell than wandering great distances with it?

Let's take that argument for a moment and break it down to what really happens. Let's say you are walking from Baldurs Gate to Nashkel. A pretty lenghty journey, which I am sure you would agree to. During that trip, had it been done in real time, the characters would have had time to rest and recast several of their spells, quite a few times over. The same goes with travelling across MS and TSM as well. For that reason, the fact that the spells are still in effect is not such a big deal, as it would simply mean IC that the character cast them again at some point during their journey.

I mean jeez, its not like you are intilted to ... Oh wait, i fogot, you are intitlent to everything. Forgot who im talking to.

I am not sure where you are going with this. I do not believe I am entitled to anything more than you are.

And with no DM... really... You dont have to farm ALL the time. Just farm a little less and you'll be fine.

I must admit that I am a bit confused by this statement as well. If it is an attempt at a personal jab at me, then it has no place in this discussion. If it isn't and it is more of a general statement, I would ask that you elaborate.

[StephenUmpf]

Sorry to jump in late on this... if this has already been mentioned, I am sorry. However, I did a quick scan and didn't see it.

So here goes, whatever you do with spells should be done to time in general. Time effects things like barbarian rage, ki damage, other special feats, as well as magic items as well as spells.

Currently, spells, resting, once per day magic, or once per day feats are relatively in balance. So if you lengthen spells you should lengthen days and the time between rest (getting more spells).

The problem is the number of attacks in combat that you would be able to generate under the influence of a spell / feat... that is a big con for an extended battle (just not in line with PnP).

However, if it only applies to spells and not feats (or other timed elements) it is out of balance.

Additionally, is it possible to do a week long test? Set it longer, see how happy every one is with it and then re-vote?

Finally, I will let you know that my opinion is biased. My current toon is a barbarian. Disclosing everything is a good policy.

Just my two cents. Again, I am sorry if I am covering old ground.

Stephen

[kid]

Im talking even on our last session Boom. We were heading from Gullykin to firewine ruins.
We did not rush RP I believe even though we were buffed.
Some buffs were hourly, some were 10min and some were minute buffs.

Now... buffs were cast at Gullykin, likely minute buffs Should have vnaished by the time we made the track to gullykin and into the wild magic zone. Tho they did not. its more than a 10 mintute walk.

Uncertain even if 10min buffs should have lasted, I admit i've no exact knowledge on how far the ruins are from the village.

Instead minute buffs lasted well into the first combat (even though no one rushed) no to mention Hourly and 10min buffs which were not going to be drained anytime soon.

So unless you somehow have a way to fix time in ALL regards, include RL sleeping and travle times, etc (which is impossible) some discrapencies(sp?) will happen. Thats just the way it is. Which makes the more important question a question of balance.

Now, as far as balance I doubt anyone can claim that at the moment casters are at a disadvantge.
And so if you choose to prolong the duration of thier buffs (the hourly one) at the very least shorten the time of thier 10min buffs. So balnace would somehow be kept.
(Not to mention other things like spell costs, etc, etc/ For some reason we think things should be matched to PnP only when they benefit us)

[puny]

i voted Yes because:

i hate the stress i feel behind my screen when i see people fire off their precious buffs. As it is, combat in alfa is clumbsy and hard to get a firm grip and control over as it is and as soon as attackrolls are rolled, my ability to capability RP, emote what my toon/s does, reacts, says, etc are lowered to a painful minimum of a occational *dodges* *curses* *yelps* if i get the time inbetween target reassignment, movement, consumable-poping, spellthrowing, HPtracking, pathing-frustration.

so. knowing and seeing the effects of everyone knowing how the precious spells seconds/minutes ticks away when that dredgery of combat finally ends, and the OOC feeling of needing to squeeze out every last droop of a possible difference between life and death that those buffs in alot of cases can present, makes the RP die even more, even after the mechanical dredgery is over-and-done-with.

if the spells actually, mechanically doesnt wear off in "a blink of an eye" - atleast I would feel alot more comfortable with giving the tiem to RP more... after all... it feels so utterly compeltely worthless to minimize the trauma comatness-life-and-death-situations to stressed "everyone's alright..? good, that door, after you" RP (and yes, i to a 99% blames the buffs and their durations. the RP that IG is swift and perhaps not takes time at all, but takes time to express and react to emotewise, takes up alot of OOC time to write up)


i hope this doesnt comes out as to whiney

[I-KP]

If some of the 10min/lvl spells are too strong why not find another way to resolve those issues rather than using them as an excuse to torpedo a sensible time compression correction. Hour/lvl spells need to be fixed, and the poll results clearly demonstrate that. Time compression as a whole needs to be tweaked, and poll results indicate strong support for such an action. Lets get these positive change considerations fully scoped and logically tested for feasibility and deal with satellite issues separately.

[Xanthea]

I don't have a strong opinion about spell length but all those people talking about how buffs make for rushing and hurt RP, doesn't that apply equally well to minute/level spells?

It sure takes longer to hold an RP conversation than it would IRL and minute/level buffs are ticking down all the while while you do that too.