Moving PCs -

[Veilan]

Alright, I'll try to be more direct and "clear". I'm not really "pissed off", just at this point a little flabberghasted how communication can be this... ineffective.

You misread my intent in my posts, I am not trying to be condescending or devicive just the opposite, what I'm asking you is, given that the rule was broken, what do you suggest I do?

Hm... mostly stuff to take away for the future. Make sure rules are enforceable, and make sure you can develop them with input from the other parties on eye-level, before the LA gives you an atomic bomb to guarantee their "consent" .

You seem to be looking for a sanction for T-eyes,

Where, mate? All I want is our rules to be taken serious... and be designed to help, not cause wormcan issues that were handily dismissed as coming from the Grinch-faction. T-ice' dilemma, as far as I'm concerned, reflects more on that rule and its design than on T-ice.

what do you suggest beyond me explaining the rules to him?

You? Nothing. You're not the DMA nor the staff head of DM discipline, as you noted yourself below. You don't need to feel personally responsible to remedy it all - and in fact, I think it'd be easier if you didn't.

You are making a call to action,

No, actually

I'm voicing my disaffection

what would you have me do V? Setting aside a moment that the DMA handles dm discipline, which is a pretty big aside. Are you instead saying we ought to be sanctioning the players? If so what do you suggest?

See above. You need in no way try to please me, and I didn't suggest any sanction. All I suggested was that we have a consequential relationship to our rules - define them in an enforceable way, and then care about them - and perhaps design them with sanctions where necessary. I think the problem here is not so much what the people did - all with good intentions, but that that part of the rule is ill-designed to begin with.

I'm being as earnest as I can here, your tone from your last post has me baffled. Please just speak plainly or take it to Pms, as always I respect your opinion and welcome it, but I'm damned if I can follow it at the moment.

That's fair enough. I suppose a lot of it is down to board communications, but I do think I'm speaking pretty plainly. I may have been a bit more harsh in my own formulation because of a feeling of disappointment that you "didn't get it", because I, as I said, consider you smart and passionate.

Cheers,

[Witchdoctor]

Where is Rodney King when you need him?

[Castano]

I'm not reading this crap. who's blood do you people want?

you are all the reason ALFA has issues. thanks for starting nonsense for no reason other than you lost a poll.

Game B indeed.

THREAD LOCK PLEASE

[kid]

first lets be clear.
No one wished to hang T (who's a good chap) or the players.
I dont think any one wants a ban, or even a strike to anyone.
thinking thats the point here is assuming ill will from eveyone who posts.

on the other hand no one wants to see some hand waving of "oh, its allright, no one ment any harm so its cool".

We would like to see something that would give some reassurance that we did not make a mistake with this rule as its been just a month and allready we've something that looked like a complete ignorance or (compeletly ignoring) the rule and its safeguards.

Anyway, all that was needed was a clerification about what is right and allowed under the rule.
Even that somehow got into a confusing argument in which I believe Regas claimed that a single DM is enough to approve it... which just didnt seem right.

I geuss even a clear statement going:
"This was a breach of the rule. to clerfiy a DM does not have the authority to approve waver or the 30 day waiting period. players wishing to move before 30 days must seek HDM approvle for waver of the 30 day rule and such a waver should be given only when such is given for a very good reason."
Or something like that.

Just going "oops, no matter" doesnt seem to be enough.

cheers.

[Castano]

I point out all of this is off topic. please split off my thread - I refuse to be associated with this nonsense. believe me Every DM is now aware of the rule.

[Swift]

Yeah, you just prefer to be associated with other nonsense that does not serve ALFA

[Ronan]

Neither the HDM or EADM were available. This is a pattern which should probably be rectified. Elsewhere.

[Castano]

[quote="Swift"]Yeah, you just prefer to be associated with other nonsense that does not serve ALFA [/quotedone]

please clarify Swift - what have I done other than head up the builds for 2 servers here?

[Regas]

first lets be clear.
No one wished to hang T (who's a good chap) or the players.
I dont think any one wants a ban, or even a strike to anyone.
thinking thats the point here is assuming ill will from eveyone who posts.

on the other hand no one wants to see some hand waving of "oh, its allright, no one ment any harm so its cool".

We would like to see something that would give some reassurance that we did not make a mistake with this rule as its been just a month and allready we've something that looked like a complete ignorance or (compeletly ignoring) the rule and its safeguards.

Anyway, all that was needed was a clerification about what is right and allowed under the rule.
Even that somehow got into a confusing argument in which I believe Regas claimed that a single DM is enough to approve it... which just didnt seem right.

I geuss even a clear statement going:
"This was a breach of the rule. to clerfiy a DM does not have the authority to approve waver or the 30 day waiting period. players wishing to move before 30 days must seek HDM approvle for waver of the 30 day rule and such a waver should be given only when such is given for a very good reason."

or something like that.

Just going "oops, no matter" doesnt seem to be enough.

cheers.

I never said a single dm was sufficient; we haven't changed the rules- I have no clue why you think that but I suppose you mis-read something I posted. We did clarify this in the dm thread with T-ice and Boom. This was handled by the people responsible for handling it in the place appropriate for handling it, in private forums.

I'm not a fan of locking threads, I'd rather folks have a chance to speak their minds and get whatever's bothering them off their chests. I don't think this is venue to deal with what is essentially a dm issue but as Veilan, our recent past LA and Swift, Silvy's EDM both posted here I thought I should try and answer the issues they raised. I do appreciate everyone's comments and encourage anyone who wants to send me a pm if they have further questions or suggestions.

Thanks
Reg

[Veilan]

Ranting from Castano aside,

I thought we were actually making good progress, and seem to have gotten to a closer understanding of what it is that seemed to irritate both sides of the discussion. Not that I necessarily agree with there being "sides", we all have our individual concerns and opinions, and often enough they overlap only partially in shifting constellations.

I still do not concur this is a "DM issue". The rule was created in a spirit of PA authority - that Regas genuinely sought input is laudable, but does not change the fact that he was the most forceful and most empowered proponent of the rule, and the one wording it. In any case, Regas seems to have realised that this is about the loss of confidence in a rule that is casually ignored and then dismissed as "oh but it's not a big deal!", spiced with portrayals of the whistle-blowers as "pissed off" opponents of any "change". Now, it probably ain't a big deal - hence why it still baffles me where the notion that anyone is asking for punishment comes from (suggesting vitriolic board tactics as a plausible explanation) - but again, that probably points to the rule being flawed to begin with, not that people are somehow unreasonable in asking that our practices match our laws.

The line between "fun" and the necessary discipline and organisation is a delicate one, but it is one that needs to be respected and acknowledged in a project where we have come to continously alter the core consensus that founded the community. When you forge a consensus, then portray the "give" part of that irrelevant compared to the "take" part, it is simply not the most confidence-inspiring stewardship, and raises legitimate questions about future handling.

Cheers,

[Darkmystic]

I love reading these topics, to see how much our community cares about Alfa. Its sad though that everyone is tearing Alfa a new asshole in the process.

[I-KP]

Germans.

[Galadorn]

I love reading these topics, to see how much our community cares about Alfa. Its sad though that everyone is tearing Alfa a new a**hole in the process.

I don't think ALFA is being torn up because of discussions like the one above.

I do think ALFA is being torn up due to new rules that ruin one of the most important "pillars" ALFA held since the start. ((just my 11 year old opinion, but carry on!))

But with a new rule such as this, there will be bumps... and i expect potholes to come... and trenches... then ....something perhaps along the lines of that movie 2012... but hey, who's counting?

good luck on yer 3rd PC... fek

[Castano]

ban t-ice for not putting the request to paazin then. Sorry if my defense of one of our DM's comes off as "ranting" to you. I will continue to "rant" wherever ALFA DMs are trashed. Especially when it is publicly done as it was here. Our DMs contribute a lot to this community. When one of them makes a mistake that can be rectified through discussion and a promise to read the rule and not violate it again, that should be had through proper channels, not an ALFA General rant by you guys.

Nobody here is stupid Veilan, we know the issue is your and Swift's displeasure with the 2 PC rule. You want to kill it, run for office versus 70% of the members that supported it.

Veilan at the end this rules violation is DMA's call. You have all been very vocal about how rules need to be enforced. I'm not sure what you all want here.

I think it's funny when we finally get numbers back up around here, that a vocal minority steps forth to complain about a rules violation in ALFA General in an attempt to further harm this community. Perhaps we can return to the days when you guys were in charge and our servers struggled with population.

[Swift]

Castano, you are the only one that thinks a DM is getting trashed here. This entire discussion has been about the process that led to things happening. Nobody is trying to crucify anyone. Veilan said as much multiple times but since you failed to read that, I am sure he would be happy to say so again.

Additionally, don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say. Cheers.

Aside from that, this place ceased to be the ALFA I knew years ago, well before 2 PCs came in, but I would not still be here if I was not deriving some level of fun.