Legendary PC's and issues

[Dorn]

Hmmm.
More documentation = more work for Dms not live Dming. But i guess it could be minimal (ie a 1 sentance dot point).

DM post example: (Action) Beavis has led the destruction of a Zhent cell. (Reputation) after publicly advertising for mercs to join him then Zhent network may be out for blood. (resolution) none yet

alternative

DM post example: (Action) Buthead has found one fo the missing Nether Scrolls and provided it to Elminster (Reputation) The wizard holding it was killed and his thralls fled (resolution) Mystra has chosen this PC as a Divine Champion. No followup. Elminster ands the other Chosen now like this person.

I guess level 5 is actually fairly important in terms of the NPCs around you so if there is a bio somewhere for that character (maybe a bio forum somewhere?) then any DM could update it with a one line description of what's happened as things progress? Too much work?

Again, maybe we dont need to mandate this, it'd just be BMP.

[Mayhem]

Mybe it should be up to the player to submit a new "chapter" of their bio whenever they level up, giving mention of the plots, resolved or otherwise, they were involved in since last level up.

Submit to their DM for approval, DM posts it in a Bio thread dedicated to that character.

[Rick7475]

Mybe it should be up to the player to submit a new "chapter" of their bio whenever they level up, giving mention of the plots, resolved or otherwise, they were involved in since last level up.

Submit to their DM for approval, DM posts it in a Bio thread dedicated to that character.

Hmmm, that's a cool idea.

Perhaps players should keep a log.

I don't think we need a level cap at 12 or 13, just some way to ensure that DM's are aware of how to fit a PC into the realm of their stewardship without having to hunt down other DM's to piece together a player record and know the issues and relations with other PC's, Legendary PC's, and what their status is in other areas or servers.


Actually, how about this: taking from Jaydemoon's and Mayhem's ideas, make it mandatory for any PC over level 10, or 12, or whatever we decide to keep a log or journal subject to review by DM's or whatever. It could be part of the level 10 level advancement requirement.

[Mayhem]

Seriously, why wait for level 10? Most PCs are going to die before then anyway. Get players into the habit of earning their level up by writing a brief biography update, and they will soon come to accept it, even enjoy it.

It doesn't need to be war and peace, just a couple of sentences outlining the major friends and enemies they have made along the way so that when they meet a new DM he need only check their bio-thread to see if there is anything he can spring on the player from his history.

And of course DMs could annotate the bio if they have something particular in mind for a PCs future...

[Brokenbone]

Eyes are glazing a bit on the "legendary" stuff, but keeping an up to date biography available for your patron DMs (or for them to pass on to new DMs) seems win-win for players and DMs. I would imagine some of the more enjoyable campaigns people are involved in, in NWN1, have this to help underpin it.

Of course, bios can be plunked into DM forums and annotated with "the DM side of the story" or other ideas for spinoff plots. Example, someone's bio could mention the enormous sense of achievement a paladin of Lathander had in stopping evil merchants from foreclosing on an orphanage... but DMs note in the margin that "duped PC is unaware that this is actually a front for local smugglers, which the evil merchants were simply in competition with. Plan to give hints in upcoming pirate quests."

I guess back to this "legendary" stuff, having a mover-and-shaker PC wander into a DM's turf with insufficient information on their background is never fun, especially when you start getting undocumented claims of relationships, debts, hero status, whatever. "Elminster owes me one due to something I did in Spring 2005 under DM Long-gone." or "I know this NPC is secretly a Zhent from DM Long-gone, you're playing him wrong if you think he's a Harper sympathizer", etc.

Note bios can be point form, just the highest points someone ought to know about a PC. No mandated form for it, just what makes your PC special, their key achievements, relationships, goals, fears, whatever.

[Zelknolf]

Mybe it should be up to the player to submit a new "chapter" of their bio whenever they level up, giving mention of the plots, resolved or otherwise, they were involved in since last level up.

Submit to their DM for approval, DM posts it in a Bio thread dedicated to that character.

Hmmm, that's a cool idea.

Perhaps players should keep a log.

See, I figured there were already people doing this (namely myself!) From what I've seen, the DMs are more interested in the "wtf are you doing with this level?" angle than the "wtf did you do last level?" angle, save for when one is coming to a new server (when it's nice to have a bulleted list of stuff the character's been involved with)

I would advise against keeping a log only in prose format, which is what I was used to seeing from the DM perspective on NC, if this becomes any kind of a requirement. The fact is that the average DM will pull his hair out if she/he's expected to read twenty pages of "And then Sir Plumper skewered another tribe of goblins and took their loot. It was an auspicious battle; the goblins all poured alchemist fire on their weapons and used single-use versions of bags of many tricks. The smell of dead goblin, burnt sulfur, and summoned badger was thick in the air." -- frankly, the use of our lovely list tags and a "* Sir Plumper destroyed the Grumpy Badger goblin tribe in response to their raids on Bakerville" covers the event well, without the paragraph(s) of narrative... which I suppose they could still write, if they liked it. Bios are much more fun to read when they're not required material.

[darrenhfx]

I've always encouraged players to keep a diary of sorts of the major happenings with their pc. Some people like to wait until they get a few levels before they start giving detail, some people start out with a really detailed concept and build from there.

Either way, the players who managed to keep the dm's up to date with a journal seemed to be more likely to get DM time. It's very difficult to keep track of what the pc's have been up to, with a variety of DM or player interactions otherwise.

This applies for legendary, extraordinary, or very ordinary pc's.

[Mulu]

Well, what you'd want is a PC bio forum with DM only access and individual access to the player's own PC bio thread, if that's even possible. Sort of like a journal, but meta and without the need to be creative.

[MShady]

Ayergo brings up a good point in a ways.

There is not a great deal of difference between a very old and a very high level PC. They are often the same thing, but that is often not the case as well.

Euthanizing higher level PCs but allowing older PCs with equally complex backgrounds is both kind of unfair and meta.

A PC might be a pain in the arse to a DM for a month or two they are on a server. Or even less. I can understand that. However, that person may have been developing that character for years. I think folks are losing sight of that aspect too.

ALFA's never dealt with high levels very well. Some DMs really love to have someone like that come around to play with. Some don't know where to start and leave you alone. Some want you off their server or pigeon hole you somewhere. Maybe tracking information and maintaining backgrounds would be a step in the right direction. Forced retirements are not. Consistent treatment and information transparency would be nice beyond the DM level threads on the PR boards, which have a very mixed history.

DMs and players should collaborate on what's not a complete secret based on capacity issues. A player is far more likely to provide a detailed history than a DM can ever record. That's the goal, right? It's also more "work" time for the DM and takes they away from DMing. All you do by force retiring people at a certain level is have people stay around at that cap and develop the same complex history, interactions and baggage.

An RP community also does as much a disservice to itself with such a policy because however much a pain a PC with a very deep background can be, you know what? They still have a very deep backgroud. They can share alot of things with other players. Tell some amazing stories. Collect some amazing memorabilia. It's how we remember and honor IC the work of past DMs. Would people remember the work of Esiovm, Memneth, Thingray, Mikayla etc as well if the legacy of several great PCs from Daggerdale? Not so much.

When someone plays a character for a long time, its really hard to retread the same server with a fresh perspective and get into it all again. Some people can do it, but alot of people just move to other communities to.

I tried DMing on the North Underdark and had a hard time getting into it as a DM just because of the very complex, very developed PCs there. It was also very fun to watch and a multi-level clinic on quality RPing. I didn't DM alot there due to some other issues, but I managed to insert myself a few times just doing small stuff with people.

One of my favorite memories there was watching a PC dealing with an unruly, whiny kobold slave and the RP that flowed from that.

My point is, if you don't know how to deal with someone as a DM, just do something small and let them react to it. Just RP. I'd much rather have a chat with a bartender IC or rescue someone's cat at this point then go on another epic death ride (tm). That's actually bad, thoughtless DMing to even pull that out of the box without knowing a character. Some DMs insist on doing that because they don't seem to have an idea of what to do it seems like.

A character may be 'legendary', but they're still characters too.

[JaydeMoon]

MSahdy, I demand you retire Hignar!!!

[Mikayla]

In Soviet ALFA, Hignar retires you!

[jodyhamilton]

I have never been a legendary PC myself, but I think to institute a mandatory cut off point is wrong. In a world of make believe its saying that you can only dream so far. If the Dm's have a problem running higher level PC's then they arent being creative enough. On the lines of a legend running with low level PC's yes that is extremely difficult, but it can be overcome. For example: 15th level paladin is guarding a holy child with a few lvl 5 PC's (say three or four). If they get ambushed by goblins the Paladin could easily take them out alone, we all know this, but If the Paladin uses leadership abilities to safe guard the child while instructing the rest of the party how to effectively strike against the threat, then not only should that legendary gain xp like the rest of the party, but should also earn the admiration of his peers, as followers and friends...I have learned many things from higher level PC's in this game and taking them away would just be taking away from pc's being able to ICly learn from such greats.

[fluffmonster]

We need to keep something in mind...we can talk about how legendary PCs can function as quest-givers and take on a particular role in relation to lower-level PCs and such, but in practice its at least as likely that the player wants to continue to play the PC more or less as they always have, playing the adventurer and not becoming any more or less pre-occupied with responsibilities positions than an adventurer of any other level.

[Misty]

With fewer players than in the days of yore, finding students/acolytes/minions isn't so easy anymore, either.

[Munmun]

A Legendary PC could play a part as a quest giver with job delegation. The DM could give a quest to a legendary PC who then seeks out a group of lower level players to do the task for him.