Missing KEMO Animations

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Zelknolf
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Zelknolf »

Swift wrote:I am happy to tinker with this while Tech works on more important things :D
I am available to aid and support in any tinkering; and tech is always happy to make use of random successes from folks. The general guidance I would give is that you can probably disable the sections by killing their buttons, and can improve performance if you also kill the panes they call (the initial load of a GUI has to take a moment to figure out where everything will go if it displays, even if it never actually displays.)

They're probably lines like <UIButton [lots of attributes]><children, but including an OnSelected event that references the name of a pane></UIButton> and <UIPane [attributes, including the name]> <lotsofchildren-- probably UIButtons or UITexts that call scripts on left click> </UIPane>

Shouldn't need to remove any of the animation files, because they're not necessarily going to be cleanly divided or reasonably named, and I could try to guide as far as making placeables actually cooperate with that (though you should expect to have to dust off your knowledge of trigonometry to do so-- fair warning).

I'm still hammering out some issues with my test server-- if it happens to get up and functional before you finish this, I can lend its use to the efforts as well.

// edit
We should also try to get a policy set down that overtly says how sexual of content is too sexual. We've had more than a few requests that seem to push into the grey area created by ALFA's transition to an R18 rating, and seem to be guiding primarily by the loudest opinions and the most assertive development right now-- and that's not necessarily going to be the best for or the most reflective of the community (even this fairly-timid discussion seems to be trying to pull in a few different directions).
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Keryn
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Keryn »

I was one that took part in the chat discussion, and even though I agree some animations that were left out of the lite pack could be of use, I also disagree with many others that are being proposed and specially with the inclusion of the whole pack.

T-Ice made pretty much my point, ALFA has a reputation, and is known for a type of gaming and attitude towards gaming, and we cannot take a look at these things with our eyes only in the immediate, being shortsighted can result in repercussions that I am sure none of us desires.

Do we truly need the animation "Sit with legs open?" or some of the All Four? And some others... IMO they are clearly and objectively intended to ERP alone, though much like when someone wants to PG there is always an excuse and creativity always allows to find one excuse to try and legitimate the situation.

Fact is, closing our eyes to an aspect, is not the same as fully support it and wish it to grow inside our gaming worlds, specially when it can become a "toxic" thing for our true aspirations to promote RP and the base of DnD in a close way to what many have experienced in some pnp sessions. A game oriented to explorations, with intrigue and plots to solve, and battle, that allows for great RP and character development.
I refer to toxic when supporting and giving ways for people to feel ERP is okayed and something we strive for, since we the recent past we have seen how that detracts from the actual game we wish to see IG.

When a DM logs in, prepares something, and then the player sends a tell OOC telling him to "f*ck off, and leave them alone t their ERP", something is definitely wrong. DMs also have fun DMing, they are part of the game, and they run the world and how the world reacts to your PC, they create what we cannot script, and add creativity, and fun to the world, they write plots and campaigns that give meaning to out PCs life, taking them into dangerous adventures etc...

I am sure ALFA is not a place where two adults can log in, have ERP, and add a visual to what they already type to arose one another. For that that are other worlds... like Haven, but yeee since they supported that type of "gaming", it really became their biggest attractive and a decline in their world.

On other hand Zelks questions obviously makes sense and has merit. First we were PG13, and some people pushed in for the change for 18+ due to written content, and some RP happening IG. The same people that mostly seem to support and push for this change, and the question that comes to mind, is when we will have enough tool for ERP? Does it ever stop? Is this the way? Where do we draw the line of what is too sexual?
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Swift
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Swift »

Keryn wrote:And some others... IMO they are clearly and objectively intended to ERP alone, though much like when someone wants to PG there is always an excuse and creativity always allows to find one excuse to try and legitimate the situation.
Thats a fairly unfair connection you have made. I would compare it to the entertainment industry when they tried to get P2P banned completely, despite the huge, legitimate uses it had, but that might be a tad too harsh.
Fact is, closing our eyes to an aspect, is not the same as fully support it and wish it to grow inside our gaming worlds
While this principle doesnt really apply in this case, it is worth pointing out that in the real world, negative social issues (as you see ERP to be) are never solved by having society close their eyes and pretend it isn't there. Accept, embrace and regular goes so much further to solving social issues than sticking your head in the sand.
I refer to toxic when supporting and giving ways for people to feel ERP is okayed and something we strive for, since we the recent past we have seen how that detracts from the actual game we wish to see IG.
Lets just be clear here. People that seclude themselves from the rest of the server to get their virtual freak on are only robbing themselves. There is nobody else that is being prevented from playing the way you describe by them doing it. People who do so regularly often end up finding themselves on the outer, because they miss DM events and DMs make less effort to get them involved.

Anyone who puts ERP as a focus doesn't end up staying here long. It wouldn't matter how many tools they had. You may have noticed that alot of people that have come here from Haven generally do not end up staying too long. They try serious RP for awhile, often don't find it to their liking and go back to Haven. Do you really think that is simply because we lack the 'tools' to facilitate ERP?
When a DM logs in, prepares something, and then the player sends a tell OOC telling him to "f*ck off, and leave them alone t their ERP", something is definitely wrong. DMs also have fun DMing, they are part of the game, and they run the world and how the world reacts to your PC, they create what we cannot script, and add creativity, and fun to the world, they write plots and campaigns that give meaning to out PCs life, taking them into dangerous adventures etc...
The instances of this are incredibly remote. If you provide a verifiable example of it happening, it would be the first one I have personally heard of. Most DMs check out where people are when logging in to see who is available and who isnt. When most DMs see 2 people in a private room, they generally leave them alone as it is.
I am sure ALFA is not a place where two adults can log in, have ERP, and add a visual to what they already type to arose one another. For that that are other worlds...
And what of the people that enjoy ERP but prefer our style of game world? What about people that log in to play at a regular time but just don't feel up for serious RP and adventuring for whatever reason? I would be fairly confident in saying that we do not have a single player in ALFA who logs in with ERP as their priority. As part of developing their character? Sure. As a bit of a fun during down time? Sure. As the main focus, to the exclusion of all other play? No.

Social servers such as Haven draw a particular type of community, which makes any kind of serious roleplay and character progression virtually non-existent. Would you really turn away a good RPer that fits into our world just because they like to ERP now and again? If so...well...get ready to ban alot of current and active ALFAns.
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Zelknolf »

To be fair, we already have kneeling to place one's head roughly crotch high, bending over at the waist with legs spread, and leaning back with legs open in the air in our haks-- and that last one is the only recent addition (being something we acquired with KEMO chairs). I've not seen any evidence of their damaging the fabric of ALFA, or somehow reducing the quality of hitting goblins with sharp things until the goblins stop hitting back.
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by t-ice »

swift wrote:What about people that log in to play at a regular time but just don't feel up for serious RP and adventuring for whatever reason?
For what other types of misbehavior is "I'm just not feeling like proper RP at the moment" a valid excuse for? (Yes, I do assume we consider pornography as a "misbehavior". Note that this doesn't have to mean it's in the "laws", leading to a punishment.)
swift wrote:People that seclude themselves from the rest of the server to get their virtual freak on are only robbing themselves. There is nobody else that is being prevented from playing the way you describe by them doing it. People who do so regularly often end up finding themselves on the outer, because they miss DM events and DMs make less effort to get them involved.

Anyone who puts ERP as a focus doesn't end up staying here long.
This here is the point, isn't it? "Put whatever in and let everyone do as they please, they're only shooting themselves in the foot" is the extreme of sink or swim, with some mines added in for good measure. The other extreme being the over-cushioned nanny-community where alarms go off to the logs when someone says "tits". Naturally neither an unregulared or over-regulated community is the optimal. Which naturally leads to:
swift wrote: Accept, embrace and regular goes so much further to solving social issues than sticking your head in the sand.
Zelknolf wrote: We should also try to get a policy set down that overtly says how sexual of content is too sexual.
The association "18-rated = porn" is too strong to not take a step in the direction of rules, imo. I also think pornography is something that should not be OKed. Many a great thriller is told with sexual tensions, desires, even offenses, at the center stage. But content where the point is to get aroused is something else, and for my part I do not wish to be part of a world where that is a significant part of the action. I'd be so bold as to claim that never in the culture of mankind has a great and captivating story been told with pornography. And I don't think alfa will be the first.

Somewhat ironically, if there is a ground rule of no-porno, adding in "dual use" content oughta be that much less of a concern than without.
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Swift »

t-ice wrote:Somewhat ironically, if there is a ground rule of no-porno, adding in "dual use" content oughta be that much less of a concern than without.
Putting in a no porn rule wouldnt stop a thing. That is like trying to ban smoking in private homes. Its all feel-goody and gives politicians a nice sound grab for the news, but it doesn't actually stop it from happening.
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by I-KP »

Somewhat ironically, if there is a ground rule of no-porno, adding in "dual use" content oughta be that much less of a concern than without.
Adding in "dual use" content should be approached from the mindset of accepting that the vast majority of ALFAns will use it cleanly, and not judged from the position of immediately assuming that because it can be used in explicit cyb0r that everyone will do.

As has previously been stated, if people want to RP this kind of thing then they will do, no matter what. Depriving the vast majority of other players of the tools to enrich their RP in less X-rated ways is not the way to tackle the problem (even if there is a problem, which I doubt that there is - so I have to ask who all of this is being railed against). If one desires to control unsavory behaviour then one should target that behaviour directly and not the tools that they might use to practice it.

Having seen the KEMO set in question, I do wonder what all of the fuss is about (sans the clearly monofunctional explicit animations).
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Heero
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Heero »

I-KP wrote:Having seen the KEMO set in question, I do wonder what all of the fuss is about (sans the clearly monofunctional explicit animations).
I have to agree. It seems the fuss is mostly along the lines of, "I dont want use these for X, so I dont think other people should be able to use them for X either."
Last edited by Heero on Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kid
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by kid »

Are we still talking about this? just put it in allready.

no one is gonna be doing what ever it is that can be done with it
in the middle of the street.
people will can emote far ruder things atm anyway and dont.

from what I know all the vast mjorty of ALFA players are rational (in a way) people.
we should trust them to not abuse anything in any way that would offend anyone.
what ever people want to emote in private they can, they have, they will,
and more animations or less matters little in that regard.
Last edited by kid on Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Blindhamsterman »

have to agree with kid here, just put em in, folk that enjoy ERP will ERP regardless of animations, and the animations that could be used for non explicit stuff... could help enrich everyone elses time.
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by danielmn »

And when ERP becomes public, via either old players (highly doubtful) or new players (more likely so, given the example of Haven players coming and then leaving) what then? Adding in these animations may make newer players feel that the atmosphere we approve of includes public ERP, which it should not. I'm not against putting the animations in, but I am clearly for thinking ahead to the what ifs for preventative measures.
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by kid »

I dont how big of a diffrance it makes if someone emotes insane sex
with or without animations. thats kinda my point. I make it a point to make sure
to explaine to new players what we are about.
luckly most of us are still (semi) rational people.

if some toon goes crazy than that what you have. a crazy toon.

with or without animation.

Thinking of what to do when in that situation is almost like saying
dont give toon swords cuase they might murder commoners in the city.
thats insane and they wont.
and if they do they should expect RP implcations like anything else.
(again, if they do it with only emotes or with animation as well)
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Heero
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Heero »

Animations to cyb0r other people - people cyb0r other people. Dont ban animations.
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by danielmn »

I think my main point...that was missed...is this.

Are we to be a community that will accept public ERP when/if it happens? Should there be actions taken against those that do it? Should there be warnings posted about such? Killing NPC's in town with swords is one thing...public ERP another beast altogether. The one may be acceptable to some, the other not. You have to at times step outside and take a look at what MAY happen, in order to guage the proper response for it. You also have to step outside what you're comfortable with, and look at what others are comfortable with as well. It can't be MY WAY all of the time because you are comfortable with something happening, everyone else be damned. Again, I'm for the inclusion of the animations, but I am also for being prepared for the repercussions of what MIGHT happen if this is done. We can't sit around claiming people are sticking their heads in the sand about issues, whilst we stick our own heads in the sand about the problems that might arise from inclusion.
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Zelknolf »

I'm not sure I follow you, dan? If characters start stripping down and doing X-rated things to each other in the streets, they should suffer the IC consequences for doing so. Even in relatively-sexually-liberated FR, taking your pants off in public gets you time in jail-- and I assume that's how the world reacts regardless of animation sets.
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